Ats-34

S

samwereb

Joined
Aug 3, 1999
Messages
441
How popular do you fellows think ATS-34 would be, here in the U.S. if it was referred to as HITACHI ATS-34? (Which is what it is.)
 
In my opinion...........
ATS 34 = Ancient history!!!!!!!
I realize this isnt the most popular statement....but lets look at the facts..
154CM......Popularized by bob loveless.......back in the 70s!!??
ATS 34-An improvement on 154CM by Hitachi over 16 years ago...
Today we have Crucible CPM steels that outperform these two steels by mulitple increments.........I am talking cutting 5X longer!!!!!!!!
420V, 3V, 440V, 10V..........and then theres BG 42...the new standard. It takes a better edge and holds it longer than ATS 34.
We are moving forward!! Lets do it together and not resist change! :)
 
I think I concur with most of that. I'm curious, also, if you you have a direct answer to the question. Hawaii, has a large Japanese population. Surely the prevaling attitude their, regarding Japanese goods, is different than that, here, in the Midwest.<p>(With all due respect, Mr. Mayo, there are some awfully good brands of decaffeinated coffee on the market...:) )
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
In my opinion...........
ATS 34 = Ancient history!!!!!!!
I realize this isnt the most popular statement....but lets look at the facts..
154CM......Popularized by bob loveless.......back in the 70s!!??
ATS 34-An improvement on 154CM by Hitachi over 16 years ago...
Today we have Crucible CPM steels that outperform these two steels by mulitple increments.........I am talking cutting 5X longer!!!!!!!!
420V, 3V, 440V, 10V..........and then theres BG 42...the new standard. It takes a better edge and holds it longer than ATS 34.
We are moving forward!! Lets do it together and not resist change! :)
Click to expand...

Mr. Mayo. You have a valid point. Now could you expand your opinion and tell us which steels would you choose ATS-34 and/or 154CM over. I am not disagreeing with you, I just think there are several knives out there in ATS-34 that for "general" use by the "general" public that will perform and function well, if not better, to do the job.

The second section of my query is: In your opinion, how much valve is the design of a knife towards the overall intended function and sucessful use regardless of the steel?

Please understand that I am as big a "steel snob" as anyone. I have just realized that the 154CM blade I purchased in the 70's continues to perform and is as functional for my use as ever.

Thank you for your time.
 
I think ATS-34 is a long way from being history. I've talked to some knife makers that have tested everything they come out with. Nothing seems to really outperform ATS to real advantages.

It comes down to the old question "how much better VS. the cost?" Yes there are better steels, I know, but the price of the finished knife would be higher. Would the knife be that much better? Not $100-$200 better. (I'm talking 7" blades,12" OAL)

Yes if someone wants it, I'll make it, but I don't think ATS-34 is history. I know there are other steels that are older, and are still being used.
 
well it's popular enought for me to make a living on about 60% of my knives. i use hitachi ats-34, and that is what i tell my customers it is already. in culinary knives it will out preform all the production culinary steels which are about 440a at best., unless you want to go back to the carbon vs stainless debate, which will go on till hell freeze's over :D i do agree with hole,drillin, TOM that there there are newer better S.S. out there. i am using more and more BG-42 on my field blade's i also still get great results on bird & trout and paring knives with bos treated 440c. yes there is the new steel of the month club for the folder/tactical market but to me it depends on what breed of blade your making.
 
Frankly, I have no complaints about ATS-34. In fact, I think most of the knives I own have blades of ATS-34 and I have been satified with their performance. I'm not a metallurgist nor am I a steel snob by any means and while I'm sure there are steels out there that are considered better, I'm happy with the edge holding capabilities of my ATS-34 blades.
 
It might lose a few sales (if labeled as Hitachi), especially in the production knife end.

It is a fine steel when properly heat treated.

Mr. Loveless did indeed help popularize 154CM but I do believe that QC problems led the knifemaking community to start using the Hitachi product. Now that 154CM is "clean" again, we are seeing a resurgence in its use.

I like the improvements offered by the newer steels (and talonite of course) and am willing to pay the price difference. Not everyone one can/will and ats-34 will continue to be used as it offers good value for the price.

As far as decaf coffee: NEVER!!!!! :D :eek: :p
 
If any of the Crucible CPM steels are used to make a knife the price is going to be a lot higher than with ATS34. These steels can cost as much as 8 times the price of the ATS34. For higher priced custom knives this is not a problem. For production knives it means you will have to pay more for the knife than most people are willing to pay. A lot of the members of Bladeforums may be willing to pay this premium for a better steel. The average knife buyer would probably not be willing to do so.

I really don't think that the average person would care if the steel was listed as being made by Hitachi and knife people already know it is a Japanese steel so I don't think it would make any difference really.

ATS34 is a very good steel. It is better than steels like AUS6, AUS8 420J or 420HC and is still the most popular steel used in better knives. Other steels such as BG42, D2 and the CPM steels are catching up, but unless they become less expensive you are unlikely to see them being used as much as ATS34 in the foreseeable future.

The above, of course, is my opinion and I could be wrong. Hell, there's a first time for everything.;)
 
I am not sure but I believe D2 doesn't cost more than ATS/154cm.
ATS/154CM History??? Lets move on??? Damn I still like 1095. All this new wonder steel has got me spinning. Guess I need to try them all.
 
I agree with some of you guys. ATS/154-cm are not on their way out. Neither is the high carb stuff liek 1095 and O-1 and 1084. I enjoy using the newer steels that come out, but the price and difficulty working them stop many people. 1 foot of 440V can be up to $28 for 1.5x1/8" thick per foot, u can get 3' of D2 for $8 more direct from crucible, and it runs about $48 for 6' mill run for D2, ATS and 154 are about 35 to $40 mill run. Mill run steels are all about the same price now for 440C, ATS, D2, A2, etc, usually within a few bucks per foot, but the CPM stuff is much more expensive usually, and a LOT harder to work. Some say 440V is impossible to grind after HT unless you have a VS machine. There is a place for the newest bestest steels and alloys, IE TALONITE (TOM :)), but for many people, they are an unnessary cost and expense to the maker and the customer. I continue to use D2 cuz I love that stuff. Ats is nice, too, and I might be ordering some CPM s30V to play with soon because it sounds ideal for a kitchen knife for me :) I also like 1084 and O-1 due to their low cost and I can HT them myself w/o expensive equipment. I dont feel any steel goes in and out, it all depends on the purpose of the knife and the budget of the maker and customer. People still like 440a in a pocket knife for a small hunting knife, and others like Talonite, Damascus, etc.
 
I have to admit that I would rather have US 154CM than Hitachi ATS-34 these days, but mostly because I have found the 154CM to be finer grained. I like to support US steel manufacturers, but generally consider knife design to be more important to me than making a pretty much insignificant gesture of solidarity. Now if I had the opportunity to buy a car made of US steel instead of Japanese steel, that might matter more.
 
Often I see ATS 34 and think 154CM. They are the same to me. The world is getting smaller and international trade is a reality.
 
It doesn't matter whether it's called Hitatchi ATS-34 or just ATS-34.
As long as 154-CM continues to run "cleaner" than ATS-34, I think Crucible's 154-CM will continue to grow in popularity with custom/handmade knifemakers. And the factories too for that matter.
The bar is continually being raised these days in the world of cutlery. The difference between ATS-34 and 154-CM may be minor as far as performance is concerned, but, the makers and the factories are gonna go with what the knife buying public is clamoring for.
And what are we constantly searching for in our knives? BETTER steels!
The folks making our knives are keenly listening to what we want. They have to, their bread and butter depends on it.
The cutlery industry is booming on all levels. This means competition is getting pretty stiff. So, everyone is looking for any edge they can get to better their wares. A cleaner steel means a better performing steel.
I don't think adding the name Hitatchi to ATS-34 will affect it's sales one way or the other. Hitatchi's ATS-34 will get better sales when it begins to outperform 154-CM again.

Disclaimer:
The above post is just MY opinion. Any basis in fact is merely coincidental.
 
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