ats34 vs cm154

deltablade

deltablade

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If I had to choose between these steels for a hunting/skinning knife, which would I choose? What is the difference in characteristics between the two?
 
the steel xperts will chime in with advantages & facts soon . i will say i.m.o. that ats34 is about the bottom of the atomic alloys.--dennis
 
DennisStrickland said:
the steel xperts will chime in with advantages & facts soon . i will say i.m.o. that ats34 is about the bottom of the atomic alloys.--dennis
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Which seems a bit ironic given that 154CM seems to be the U.S. version of ats-34:D.

Though 154CM seems to be more widely used than ATS-34.
 
Here's some info from the steel FAQ:

ATS-34 was the hottest high-end stainless in the 1990s. 154-CM is the original American version, but for a long time was not manufactured to the high quality standards knifemakers expect, so knifemakers switched over to ATS-34. CPM is again making high-quality 154-CM, and some companies seeking to stick with American-made products (like Microtech) are using it. ATS-34 is a Hitachi product that is very, very similar to 154-CM. Normally hardened to around 60 Rc, it holds an edge very well and is tough enough even at that high hardness. Not as rust resistant as the 400 series above. Many custom makers use ATS-34, and Spyderco (in their high-end knives) and Benchmade are among the production companies that use it. Contrary to popular belief, both steels are manufactured through the Argon/Oxygen/Decarburization process (AOD), not vacuum remelted.
 
deltablade said:
If I had to choose between these steels for a hunting/skinning knife, which would I choose? What is the difference in characteristics between the two?
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If the blade geometry and HT are the same, you shouldn't notice any difference. They are for all practical purposes identical. Note that CPM-154 (powder) is not the same as 154CM (ingot).

Noctis3880 said:
Which seems a bit ironic given that 154CM seems to be the U.S. version of ats-34:D.

Though 154CM seems to be more widely used than ATS-34.
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Probably cheaper to source it domestically than import it?
 
There was a switch in quality, as knifemakers noted that 154CM finished out better than the ATS-34, with less voids in the steel being found on final polishing. I don't know if that is still the case, but this is why the pendulum has swung back and forth a couple times. Global demand and currency exchange would also be major influences.
 
I've used Benchmade folders in both steels back to back and really haven't noticed much of a difference in edge holding or durability. I have noticed ATS34 developed very light rust a bit faster than the 154CM, but that could have been attributed to the blade polish, etc. I think they are both good steel, although not as high-tech as some these days!
 
That's interesting. I always thought that 154CM was originally used in jet turbine blades in the late 1970's and was only sold in larger quantities than most knifemakers were willing to purchase. So they switched to using the Japanese equivalent ATS-34. I like them both though have found that when they have a bead-blasted finish they are prone to surface rust.
 
Amazing how many stories are out there that differ so greatly regarding these steels!

From well-respected knife maker, Phil Wilson:


ATS 34 and 154CM can almost be used interchangeably. Both now are available in a wide range of
sheet stock gages. The designation that has been around the longest is 154 CM. This is the one that
started it all thanks to Bob Loveless. Bob imported ATS 34 from Japan as a replacement for 154 CM
more than 20 years ago due to availability problems with 154 CM. This is all history now since
Crucible Materials has taken a renewed interest in the last 10 years in supplying steel to the cutlery
industry. We now have a very high quality 154 CM product that is available from many custom knife
supply companies and direct from Crucible. Both ATS 34 and 154 CM polish easily and exhibit an
attractive grain structure on the steel surface.

You can read more here: http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/ATS34_and_154CM.pdf
 
excuse me if i misread the o.p. but i thought he meant cpm 154 which i've heard was a powder alloy & superior to 154cm which was an ingot product. most of info lately seems to f
rate cpm154 as superior to 154cm. if ats34 is equivalent to powder alloy cpm154 i missread my info..--dennis
 
DennisStrickland said:
excuse me if i misread the o.p. but i thought he meant cpm 154 which i've heard was a powder alloy & superior to 154cm which was an ingot product. most of info lately seems to f
rate cpm154 as superior to 154cm. if ats34 is equivalent to powder alloy cpm154 i missread my info..--dennis
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Hmmm.... ;)

Actually, what the OP wrote was CM154. So who knows what he meant? There is 154CM...and there is CPM-154...but there is not AFAIK CM154... :confused:

I think the general drift above is pretty clear, though, especially in the quote from Phil Wilson, if the OP meant 154CM. If he meant CPM-154, you are right about CPM-154 being better...
 
I must be more precise. the steel is described as CPM154cm. and I am getting a real education from all this
 
deltablade said:
I must be more precise. the steel is described as CPM154cm. and I am getting a real education from all this
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There is no CPM154CM....

It's CPM-154 for the Powered vers or 154CM for the non powered vers.

ATS-34 is the Hitachi vers of 154CM.

RWL-34 is the Swedish vers of CPM-154
 
CPM-154 is a Crucible steel, produced in powder form. My BassPro 110 in CPM-154 has been my EDC for over a year. It takes a very fine edge, sharpens much easier than S30V, and according to several knifemakers is a very tough steel. It may not hold an edge quite as long as S30V, but that's hard to tell in day-to-day use.
 
pierced said:
In either event, a better hunter can be had from a forged blade.
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Packed edge and all that, eh? :rolleyes:

From a buyer's standpoint, ATS-34, 154CM, CPM-154 and RWS-34 are essentially interchangeable. If whoever made the knife knows what they're doing and it's heat-treated decently, they're all very good.
 
...yes, and, LOL, if whoever is selling the knife can't keep straight which steel they are using...well, draw your own conclusions... ;)
 
"In either event, a better hunter can be had from a forged blade." Please tell us why.
 
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