Attacked By A Civilian

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The Tactical One

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On december 05 2001 i was walking home from work as i'm lucky enough to live about 3 blocks from work. It was about 12am an i was dead tired because i had to work open to close. I took a shortcut through a parking lot i new i shouldn't have gone through as its a hangout for the local crips gang and being a shaved headed whiteboy the first thing most of them think is that i'm a skinhead(I'm not my wife is black for gods sake). Any way some little hood rat that was about 6'5 and a good 225 pounds come up to me and asks me to give him my wallet and movado. I told him to leave me alone and to **** of, he then showed me a nice shiny aluminum handles civilain and again told me to hand over my stuff. i acted like i was reaching for my wallet and grabbed my HK USP 40 he saw it and took a slice at my shooting arm ripping into my upper arm right through my tricep and completly through my bicep. and this is through a leather jacket. i managed to keep my firearm in my hand and got off a shot very close to center mass. he dropped and i ran to my house and called the police and did my best to take care of my arm until i could get to the hospital. when all was said and done no charges were pressed against me , bad guy lived but is going to jail for a long time if convicted( he had 2 ounces on heroin a handgun as well and the armed robbery charge), my prognosis on my arm is full recovery in 12-16 monthes ans there is alot of muscle and tendon damage. i'm OK i guess i'm just concerned if i did the right thing my using my gun when i could have just taken the loss of the 200 or so bucks in my wallet some credit cards i could have canceled and my watch and not come close to taking a mans life. Did i do the right thing?????:confused: :confused:


PS- Sal glessar your slashing design of the civie is perfect as soon as the tip of that blade penatrated all th eflesh and muscle behing the point was severed and it is the most painfull wound imaginable i can honestly say i will never carry my matriarch because No matter what happened to me i would never want to inflict that type of pain on someone. I'll stick to my chinook;)
 
Damn right you were right.I'm sorry to hear about this happening.I would have put a spinner in the triangle if I were you.Triangle being the bridge of the nose out past the corners of the mouth.And I would have taken the civilian.But all in all that is what it was for(slash and go)to bad some one like that had to get ahold of one.I hope your recovery is speedy.You saved your own life.Don't EVER let anything other than those words enter your mind.If you would've dropped that gun from the slash you wouldn't be here to tell the tale would you?And maybe it could've been avoided,but you didn't risk dying to find out.I wouldn't have either.He could've gotten your stuff and did you anyway.Even worse,maybe a wife,mother,or someone else wouldn'thave known how to react.You don't know but you kept it from happening.Hope that helps
 
You did the right thing. It is regretable that you took the shortcut and all, but given the situation that you found yourself in you did what you had to. if the guy had been sloppy with his handling of a blade like, or desparate then you could be dead.

I myself hav a civilian, and now I know just how nasty of a blade it is. It will NEVER be used for anything except for defense.
 
Ultimately you will have to decide if you did the right thing. From my perspective, I think you did. Think of it this way, you give up your valuables, how do you know he wasn't going the cut you anyway. As painful as the event was, I am sure you learned a lot! You probably won't take that shortcut again.
 
Tactical One,

Glad to hear you're going to be OK, and I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. I don't believe you had any choice but to do exactly what you did, under the circumstances. It's not your fault that he decided to threaten your life...you responded appropriately. Apparently the Police thought so as well, thank goodness.

The thing to keep in mind is that you have no way of knowing what he would have done if you had given him your wallet. You couldn't afford to take the chance that he would back off. Like I said, I don't believe you had any choice.

All the best, Jeff/1911.
 
The advice not to resist a criminal assault and simply hand over the goods is founded on the notion that one's life is of incalculable value, and that no amount of property is worth it. Put aside, for a moment, the outrageousness of the suggestion that a criminal who proffers lethal violence should be treated as if he has instituted a new social contract: "I will not hurt or kill you if you give me what I want." For years, feminists have labored to educate people that rape is not about sex, but about domination, degradation, and control. Evidently, someone needs to inform the law enforcement establishment and the media that kidnapping, robbery, carjacking, and assault are not about property.

Crime is not only a complete disavowal of the social contract, but also a commandeering of the victim's person and liberty. If the individual's dignity lies in the fact that he is a moral agent engaging in actions of his own will, in free exchange with others, then crime always violates the victim's dignity. It is, in fact, an act of enslavement. Your wallet, your purse, or your car may not be worth your life, but your dignity is; and if it is not worth fighting for, it can hardly be said to exist.
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A short piece from "A Nation of Cowards," by Jeffrey Snyder. If you're interested you can read the entire article here: http://www.tcht.net/coward.html

Yes, you did the right thing. I'm sorry that you had to do it, but he chose the battle ground. He made the decision and you reacted.

Make sure to reflect on what happened (I'm sure you will) but don't get obsessive about it or make yourself sick over it.
 
id have to agree with Freedom1 here, too bad you didnt get a chance to finish him off. Hope you recover soon!
 
I'm going to disagree with eveyone so far, including you.

First - Your assailant abandoned any consideration when he demanded your property. Worrying about his life is like worrying about the life of a rabid dog.

Second - Your property isn't worth your life. I would have handed over the watch and wallet. If that was the end of it you could have then drawn your weapon when you got the needed distance from the creep or if you were further threatened.

Third - As you proved it's nearly impossible to draw and fire a handgun before someone with a knife at the ready can cut you. You were lucky to have made the shot considering the wound you received. Distract then act in that type of situation. Take off the watch and toss it to him and then feign reaching for the wallet to deploy the firearm if that's what you were comitted to doing.

Count yourself lucky.


Take care.


Mike
 
hso,

By giving up your money you enforce the BG's behavior: he learns that his methods work and he will continue to use them on other people. I'll bet you any amount of money that the Civilian wielding punk will think long and hard before he tries crap like that again. If TTO had given up his wallet/watch and then waited for further threat before drawing, it would have been way too late: gang members don't like being ID'd.

I have given up my belongings in the past in the face of similar situations. I felt like the lowest piece of dirt for a long time after that: just like a woman who is raped feels like dirt. I don't ever plan on giving up again.

I feel that there are very rarely situations where giving up your posessions is the best option. Who's to say that in the process of reaching for your wallet you don't get your throat slashed?

Finally, I don't think TTO needs your monday morning quarterbacking. I'm sure he's already thought of a thousand different responses he could have had to the situation.

Based on your advice and your philosophy on the matter I would venture to say that you have not had to deal with situations like this. When this kind of crap happens, all of your wonderful plans of 'toss the watch and shoot' go right out the window.

EDIT-

BTW, hso, you say that in the same situation you would give up your valuables. So is that it? I could just walk up to you with a knife and say, "give me your money/wallet/watch/whatever" and you would just say "ok"? I find that ridiculous.
 
short cuts really aren't


alot of people don't know the emotional trauma that comes with a situation like this.

good luck
 
You definitely did the right thing..you survived. There is definitely no guarantee the the BG wouldn't have cut you after he got the cash/valuables.

A crimestoppers episode here is currently trying to help apprehend a couple of BG's that stabbed a 7-11 clerk after they had taken all the money and were headed out the door. The clerk was on the ground throughout the robbery, and posing no threat when he was stabbed.

I wish you the best during your rehab period.
 
I think you reacted in a very humane and level headed manner.
I don't think anyone here would chastise you for putting the SOB down permanantly. The second an individual threatens you with a weapon, for whatever reason, that is a confimation that they have forfeited their own right to live. One cannot psychicly determine if an armed individual who has threatened you already will or will not kill you, weapons are in hand when life is on the line, period.

Ken
 
First of all I'd like to say you survived thats all that matters. Hindsight is always 20/20 you might look back and say "if I would have gave him the wallet and watch I might not have had to go to the hospital" well maybe and maybe not he might have cut your throat cause he thought you were a skinhead or just for kicks, it's happened before. I dont make it a habit to second guess people so I'll use this as a focal point for some advice to all. First of all it's been pointed out that you cant draw a gun faster than someone can stick you with a knife you need distance, a possible soulution would have been if you tossed your wallet on the ground and went for your gun as he bent over to get it. People in high crime neighborhoods tend to carry 2 wallets for this purpose one with a small amount of cash that you can toss at the robber and run and one that has your normal cash and cards. Once again I'll say this you went home to your wife and he's in jail, dont feel bad about him if you would have plugged him in the head he would of got exactly what was coming to him.
 
Man, that's quite a tale! What district of D.C. did this happen in? I'm anxioux to read the police <a href="http://www.crimereports.com/states/dc.html">report</a>.
 
Too bad you got cut.....if you were still functional after you shot him the first time you could have gone up and put another one right through his skull. Hope you get well soon, remember to take in a HIGH amount of protein each day to speed recovery.
 
Crimestoppers..I thought that was just a local thing here..

Well I already told you what I thought over on Spyderco's Gen. Info. Forum :)
 
Originally posted by The Tactical One
On december 05 2001 .....
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First off, let me say that if I had been in your situation, I'm fairly certain I couldn't have done nearly as "well" as you did, regardless of whether it was right or wrong. Well executed.

Only two things wrong with anything you wrote in my opinion: (1) the one shot near center of mass wasn't good enough to completely eliminate the threat; (2) that you won't carry your Matriarch because you don't want to inflict similar pain on someone else. Number (1) is just luck of the draw, no pun intended. Good thing you didn't go for a second shot, though; that would probably have been contrued as murder. Number (2) is just plain wrong. If someone is willing to do that to you, you should be willing to do that and more to defend yourself. DAMN, I wish I had seen the news that night. You did extremely well, and if I ever get a chance, I'd like to shake your hand. Are you going to the Chesapeake Knife Show in Timonium tomorrow?

Another thing... you'll probably not want to talk about this much more, here or anywhere else. And you might want to start looking for a lawyer. Even though no criminal charges were filed, there is always civil court; unless he's alone with absolutely no family, I wouldn't be surprised if someone looks to make some money off this. Bastids.
 
Originally posted by hso
Second - Your property isn't worth your life. I would have handed over the watch and wallet. If that was the end of it you could have then drawn your weapon when you got the needed distance from the creep or if you were further threatened.
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Bullshit!!!! Too many people think that way! It is his hard-earned property!

I like your other tactic, though; distracting, then putting the puke DOWN!
 
if he cut your tricep and bicep all the way through how did you fire the lucky shot?? they are what make your tendons open and close your fingers! the gun should have fall out of your hands and if the bicep is cut as bad as you say you would have not been able to raise your arm up high enuff to fit center mass if he was 6'5"?? you were lucky!?
TODD1
 
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