Attempting first Heat Treat

bpiatt

bpiatt

Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
644
OK so I am attempting my first heat treat on a knife made of 1095. The knife is .250in thick, 1.25in wide, and 9 inches long. Knife will be used for skinning game and general cutting tasks. Hoping to have a hardness around 58-59rc. I have done a lot of reading on the proper way to heat treat but there are so many different ways people do it. I kind of took bits and pieces from each to form how I plan to do it. I just want to post a very detailed step by step here of what I plan on doing so you guys can let me know if im OK.

1. Preheat oven to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit.

2. Insert knife into oven and heat for 10 minutes.

3. Remove knife and Instantly quench. (is it ok to quench in water?)

4. Preheat oven to 400 degrees Fahrenheit.

5. Insert knife and heat for 30 minutes. Turn oven off and open oven door and allow knife to cool.

6. Repeat steps 4 and 5

7. Heat treat completed successfully....hopefully :D


Thanks for any tips in advance!
 
10 minutes at 1500 sounds too long. 30 minutes for temper sounds too short. If you quench in water, you'll probably end up with a cracked blade.

I do 1500 degrees for 5 minutes, then quench in McMaster Carr 11 second oil. I remove the oil from the blade, and temper once or twice for 2 hours each at 400 degrees.
 
bpiatt said:
OK so I am attempting my first heat treat on a knife made of 1095. The knife is .250in thick, 1.25in wide, and 9 inches long. Knife will be used for skinning game and general cutting tasks. Hoping to have a hardness around 58-59rc. I have done a lot of reading on the proper way to heat treat but there are so many different ways people do it. I kind of took bits and pieces from each to form how I plan to do it. I just want to post a very detailed step by step here of what I plan on doing so you guys can let me know if im OK.

1. Preheat oven to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit.

2. Insert knife into oven and heat for 10 minutes.

3. Remove knife and Instantly quench. (is it ok to quench in water?)

4. Preheat oven to 400 degrees Fahrenheit.

5. Insert knife and heat for 30 minutes. Turn oven off and open oven door and allow knife to cool.

6. Repeat steps 4 and 5

7. Heat treat completed successfully....hopefully :D


Thanks for any tips in advance!
Click to expand...


First I'd make the knife half as thick, but you didn't ask about that....

4. Preheat oven to 400 degrees Fahrenheit.

Are you using 2 separate ovens?
I would have this preheated at the same time the HT oven is.
You want to quench immediately. and temper immediately after the quench

5. Insert knife and heat for 30 minutes. Turn oven off and open oven door and allow knife to cool.

I would make that 60 minutes twice.

Don't bother to turn the oven off.
Just take the knife out and let it cool to room temp then back in again.



3. Remove knife and Instantly quench. (is it ok to quench in water?)
Use a fast oil for 1095 what oil are you using?


This applies to you 1095 is "hypereutectoid"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673173
hypereutectoid
 
Last edited:
Thank you both for the advice. This is kind of a last minute decision to heat treat myself. I just assumed that one of the 6 local heat treating companies would be able to heat treat this knife for me, but none of them want to touch it. Luckily, I have a heat treating oven available to me at work and my boss has agreed to let me attempt it.

Here is my revised attempt method:

1. Preheat oven to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit.

2. Insert knife into oven and heat for 5 minutes.

3. Remove knife and Instantly quench in oil.

4. Preheat oven to 400 degrees Fahrenheit.

5. Insert knife and heat for 60 minutes. Remove knife and allow to cool to room temperature.

6. Repeat steps 4 and 5

7. Heat treat completed successfully....hopefully :D


I do not have any quenching oil and I am needing to get this done by Wednesday so I can have this knife ready by Christmas. Can you guys recommend an oil that I can use that would be available locally?
 
bpiatt said:
I do not have any quenching oil and I am needing to get this done by Wednesday so I can have this knife ready by Christmas. Can you guys recommend an oil that I can use that would be available locally?
Click to expand...

Canola or peanut oil will work.
 
Canola. Warm it to around 120/125°. It won't be the absolute best, but will get you by. As soon as it's in the oil, move fore and aft rather rapidly. Temper as soon as the blade reaches room temp, or can handled bare handed comfortably.
 
this is the ht i use, works great


1095
slow heat to 1475 , soak for 4 to 5 min bigger blade , smaller blades 3 to 4 min.
Oil should be 130 to 140f. Park#50
Temp @450 2 times for 2 hours at a time, with cool-down between
 
LRB said:
Temper as soon as the blade reaches room temp, or can handled bare handed comfortably.
Click to expand...

Notice what LRB wrote here

The way I read your steps, you are waiting for your HT oven to cool to 400 for tempering too.

Consider bringing in a toaster oven so you can get it into the temper right away.
(or electric frying pan or something.
Even if you don't trust the temperature regulation, set it to 300 or 350 and get it on there until your good oven is ready)

People have had knives go ping and crack sitting on the bench between quench and temper.
 
Thanks everyone for all of your input. I am going to use canola oil to quench in and will use a toaster oven to temper immediately after quench. Ill let you all know how I make out.

thanks again!
 
We should figure out a time to meet up, obviously too late for guidance on this blade. For what you are doing, 1084 would be a better choice for steel for your next one. Is there an evening you could meet me in Syracuse in the next couple of weeks?

-Page
 
sunshadow said:
We should figure out a time to meet up, obviously too late for guidance on this blade. For what you are doing, 1084 would be a better choice for steel for your next one. Is there an evening you could meet me in Syracuse in the next couple of weeks?

-Page
Click to expand...

Yes, definitely. Ive been working crazy stupid hours lately trying to get everything out before the years end. Things are finally almost back to normal. The reason I am using 1095 is because I got my hands on 39 old cammilus knife blanks from a guy. He told me if I finished 1 of the 40 for him for free that I could keep the other 39. Most are 1095 steel, then I have 3 of them in CPM3v and 3 in D2. I am cutting out the rough shape with an angle grinder and then using a belt sander for everything else.


How long do I quench for? I am supposed to leave it in the Canola oil until it is cool enough to touch right?
 
bpiatt said:
Yes, definitely. Ive been working crazy stupid hours lately trying to get everything out before the years end. Things are finally almost back to normal. The reason I am using 1095 is because I got my hands on 39 old cammilus knife blanks from a guy. He told me if I finished 1 of the 40 for him for free that I could keep the other 39. Most are 1095 steel, then I have 3 of them in CPM3v and 3 in D2. I am cutting out the rough shape with an angle grinder and then using a belt sander for everything else.


How long do I quench for? I am supposed to leave it in the Canola oil until it is cool enough to touch right?
Click to expand...

Use tongs to hold the blade point down in the oil, submerge it completely, don't stand directly over it in case it flashes. Agitate gently without touching the blade to anything for at least two minutes. When you are setting up make a wire rack to hold the blade edge up in the kiln. Practice putting it into the rack and transferring it to quench before you fill the quench bucket or turn the kiln on. Turn the kiln on and let it come up to temp and stabilize before you put your blade in
 
sunshadow said:
Use tongs to hold the blade point down in the oil, submerge it completely, don't stand directly over it in case it flashes. Agitate gently without touching the blade to anything for at least two minutes. When you are setting up make a wire rack to hold the blade edge up in the kiln. Practice putting it into the rack and transferring it to quench before you fill the quench bucket or turn the kiln on. Turn the kiln on and let it come up to temp and stabilize before you put your blade in
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks Paige. Do you agree that I should heat to 1500 degrees, then put knife in for 5 minutes?
 
I would suggest maybe a stress relief heat before the hardening step. Even grinding puts a lot of stress in the steel that can cause significant warpage. I would suggest about 1250°, for maybe 30 minutes, remove and let cool. If it warps, straighten, then repeat until it cools without the warpage. Two minutes in quench is a loooong time if you're watching a clock. With 1095, your goal is to drop the temp to under 900°, in under 1 second. With the canola oil, that ain't gunna happen, but it will be close enough to give a reasonable HT. Leaving the blade in the quench more than 45 seconds to a minute is not necessary. If you will remove the blade after about 45 seconds, and you can touch the steel without being burned, you have a few minutes of window that you can hand straighten any warp that is evident using a dry rag, old towel, or a glove for the heat, but don't push that window too far.
 
bpiatt said:
Ok, thanks Paige. Do you agree that I should heat to 1500 degrees, then put knife in for 5 minutes?
Click to expand...
personally, especially with a blade that thick I would give it at least 10, more like 20. I throw a little bit of lump charcoal in the kiln just before the blade to absorb any free oxygen

-Page
 
Well, I heat treated it successfully. I heated it for 15 minutes at 1500, quenched in 1 gallon of canola oil for 1 minute, immediately wiped it down and put it into a toaster oven at 350 for 1 hour (x2). I started grinding the scale off and started to put the edge on it. Seems alright to me....but what do i know!:eek:

heattreat.jpg






I appreciate all of your help very much. Thank you!

-Ben
 
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