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Phillip Patton

Phillip Patton

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,362
I went to my favorite salvage yard a couple days ago, to see if anything new had popped up, and found out they are going to get a huge load of CPM tool steels in at the end of this month. I'd already posted about these things a couple weeks ago. Apparently they are broaches used in the manufacture of gears in a city north of me. They use them till they get dull and throw them away. There's nothing else wrong with them.
These are NOT mystery steel. Each piece is stamped on it what steel it is. The ones I have are CPM Rex T15 and CPM M4. To find out about these steels, (which are awesome) go to www.crucibleservice.com.
The reason I'm bringing this up is, if there is some interest, I'd be willing to buy some and resell it to you. I can ship it or you can pick it up.

They have to be annealed and have the teeth ground off before they can be forged down. This is not much of a problem. I successfully annealed one in my forge. And today i forged out my first blade from one of the M4 broaches. And the teeth are very small and grind off quickly.

Let me know if you're interested.
 
Heck, at scrap prices I just might be interested.
But I don't forge. Are these pieces big enough that you could grind small blades from them directly? Any idea what hardness they are to start with? They might make neat utility knives or test pieces if slowly wet ground...
 
Can you give us approx dimensions? or weight?
 
Also, could somebody fill a newb in on which of these "super steels" are any good for forging? I know a lot of the CPM stainless ones are just too tough to reasonably move with a hammer.

-d
 
Daniel Koster said:
Can you give us approx dimensions? or weight?
Click to expand...


Oops! I'd originally included that info, but my computer lost it, and when I retyped it, I forgot to put it in...

They are 32" long, 1 3/4" diameter, and weigh about 21 pounds each.

Possum, typical using hardness is 64 HRC. You wouldn't want to grind a knife out of these without annealing them first. you'd go through about a million belts. :D But since they are round, it wouldn't be real economical anyway.
 
deker said:
Also, could somebody fill a newb in on which of these "super steels" are any good for forging? I know a lot of the CPM stainless ones are just too tough to reasonably move with a hammer.

-d
Click to expand...

They are ALL forgeable. How do you think they get them from huge billets to the flat stock most people use? But it is more difficult. They have a narrow temperature range in which the steel is movable, and it's still harder than simple carbon steel. But I have a power hammer, so I'm willing to put up with the inconveniences. This stuff should cut really well.
 
butcher_block said:
it might be fun to try some of that out the M4 that is
butch
Click to expand...

If you plan to order Butch we should double up to save shipping :)

As to forgability, All I have is my anvil (335lb, so I guess that helps a bit) and a hammer. Temp control is the blower speed control into the coal forge. How well do you need to control the temps while forging? I'd love to play with some of this stuff, but don't want to dent my anvil with it :D

-d
 
Nick Wheeler posted a photo where he was using an 8# hammer to move some CPM 3V a while back. He said it took that heavy a hammer to move it. Both T 15 and M4 should be harder to move than the 3V due in part to considerable amounts of red hardening metals, e.g. Tungsten and Moly.
 
Steve Hayden said:
Nick Wheeler posted a photo where he was using an 8# hammer to move some CPM 3V a while back. He said it took that heavy a hammer to move it. Both T 15 and M4 should be harder to move than the 3V due in part to considerable amounts of red hardening metals, e.g. Tungsten and Moly.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is that until I build a press/power hammer these would mostly make really good "whackin' sticks"?

Hrmmm...

-d
 
deker said:
So what you're saying is that until I build a press/power hammer these would mostly make really good "whackin' sticks"?

Hrmmm...

-d
Click to expand...

I was probably speaking for myself. At Nicks age, I could swing an 8 pounder one handed, but at 59, I am more limited. My 4 pounder get heavy after a while now.
 
deker said:
...Temp control is the blower speed control into the coal forge. How well do you need to control the temps while forging?...
Click to expand...

Aside from trying to forge this stuff by hand, I'd say you'd have a tough time keeping it at the right forging temp in a coal forge. I have a friend who has tried this with large Crucible L6 round stock. He had no problems using a propane forge and his press but when he tried using a coal forge (due to the rising cost of propane) he ended up with lots of problems. These steels are very sensitive to being forged either too hot or too cold.
 
Steve Hayden said:
Nick Wheeler posted a photo where he was using an 8# hammer to move some CPM 3V a while back. He said it took that heavy a hammer to move it. Both T 15 and M4 should be harder to move than the 3V due in part to considerable amounts of red hardening metals, e.g. Tungsten and Moly.
Click to expand...

I've forged 3V and the M4, and couldn't really tell a difference. But I used my power hammer to do as much forging as possible.
 
Guy Thomas said:
Aside from trying to forge this stuff by hand, I'd say you'd have a tough time keeping it at the right forging temp in a coal forge. I have a friend who has tried this with large Crucible L6 round stock. He had no problems using a propane forge and his press but when he tried using a coal forge (due to the rising cost of propane) he ended up with lots of problems. These steels are very sensitive to being forged either too hot or too cold.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend coal either, not just because of temp control, but coal also has lot's more impurities in it that are easily absorbed, especially at the high temps you need to forge these steel at. Sulfer being the main culprit.
 
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