I was doing some cardboard cutting with a CRKT Hissatsu that had just been sharpened and put back in the sheath a couple of days earlier. When I was done, I noticed some light reflecting spots on the blade and some areas felt dull. I also noticed some scratches on the finish. The cardboard was from a moving box. Some areas were double thickness and I was doing dynamic cutting, trying my hand at some slashing and stabbing with a knife designed for the purpose. This knife has been altered from the original profile. I sharpen it by just laying on a slack belt on my belt sander, then using a leather belt on the sander with white buffing compound. I tried to sharpen it the way it came, with the tip and straight portion at different directions, and just ruined it, so that was my fix. I dont think its significantly thinner than the original profile, but the line at the tip break is gone, and the tip is more robust, since I broke the old one off throwing it. Only about 1/16" of the tip was lost, which I reground on the first sharpening. Can cardboard dull or impact a knife edge when cut dynamically like this, or is it just this steel? I'll test a TSEK later, just to see what happens. The TSEK has been thinned a little bit. Its around 15 degrees per side now, and has been sharpened the same way as the CRKT. BTW, the edge up (facing the ceiling) hammer grip thrusts were disturbing in how much of a cut they made. The edge down ones (normal grip) just punched a hole.
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Aus-6 and Cardboard
- Thread starter me2
- Start date
How is the grip on that thing considering there is no guard?
I think the chances are that you didn't get a good edge when you sharpened it. I recently reported seeing reflective spots on an Aus8 Kershaw Antelope Hunter, after beboning and cutting up 4 chicken quarters. It turns out it had a wire edge that I didn't notice even though I made some pine shavings with it. I cannot predict it when it will happen, but when sometimes it takes use to find out for me if I did a good job sharpening.
I think the chances are that you didn't get a good edge when you sharpened it. I recently reported seeing reflective spots on an Aus8 Kershaw Antelope Hunter, after beboning and cutting up 4 chicken quarters. It turns out it had a wire edge that I didn't notice even though I made some pine shavings with it. I cannot predict it when it will happen, but when sometimes it takes use to find out for me if I did a good job sharpening.
Ok, here goes. I tried 3 other knives. TSEK, Kershaw Vapor, and an old chef's knife with ~0.2" spine with full distal taper and 10" blade. The other knives showed the same kind of dulling/damage, so it's either my sharpening, or the impacts will dull blades a little in general. I must point out that these impacted edges and small areas of dullness were just barely noticable, not major or anything. The vapor didnt show as bad, but the impacts were not nearly as energetic as the 3/16" x 6" blade of the hissatsu. On the issue of handles, the vapor's handle was almost painful for slashing at high speed. The TSEK was uncomfortable. The 2 folder's handles were uncomfortable enought that I was probably holding back with them. There were some corners on the chef's knife handle that weren't quite rounded enough. Just enough to notice, but not enough to effect the force of a swing. The CRKT handle was actually quite comfy and secure, for stabbing empty cardboard. No hot spots, and cardboard isnt enough resistance to make a guard an issue. The texture is aggressive and I didnt really notice the handle at all. Of course now I'll have to do it again with the CRKT, now that you brought it up.
Cliff Stamp
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me2 said:... some areas felt dull.
Could you still slice paper? How sharp was it initially? How is the grip on the Hissatsu? How fine do you take the polish on the blade?
-Cliff
The areas are just pinpoint spots of light in some cases. The dull areas will not shave hair, but would probably slice paper. I'll test some tomorrow when I get a chance. The vapor took severe tip damage on a missed throw, so it has been reground and sharpened. So have the chef's knife and TSEK, so only the CRKT has the dulled edge. The initial edge would cut hair above the skin about 1/16 to 1/8 inch. The handle was pretty good, no remembered hotspots, although after a long session I could imagine the hotspots from the rough texture. The thrusting resistance from cardboard was not enough to gauge the effects of the lack of a guard. The edge was sharpened with a 320 grit belt on a 1x30 sander and then stropped on the sander using a leather belt for the sander using white compound. I have been using the same compound for years, but have no idea how coarse it is. From the 320 straight to the leather will not give a mirror finish.
The vapor took severe tip damage on a missed throw
That's what the CRKT's folders are good for! To get the throwing out of your system so you don't have the urge when handling your much more beloved folding knives. I first did this with a Gerber Mini-Covert on cardboard targets (I had throwing knives, but those are not the same!). Sometimes knife would either unlock or the liner jammed all the way to the right. Last year I got a CRKT M-16 and afterwards didn't find much to like in it, except it was fairly light for the size. I was throwing it at an old bean bag chair when I missed. The tip hit the floor (carpet over concrete), and when I picked up the knife, about 1/3 of an inch of the tip was gone (could not be found). I expected the Aus8 to break clean, and was surprised to find some odd angled bending and deformation on the blade near the point of failure, and the fact that looking at the cross section, it looked really coarse, more like breaking an Oreo cookie rather than glass, as I expected. I tried to thin the chisel edge and regrind the tip to make an "oyster knife," but it was slow going and that was the end of that.
About the lack of the guard, I mainly asked as to get an idea of the security of this knife, not suggesting that the lack of an guard is a potential problem. It's probably more like a psycological thing, like standing on a glass floor.
For thrusting in to harder material, or the accidental impact, I prefer a guard. EKI Commander size finger cutouts, and the shape of the Kasper designed folders in good too. This is one point I tend to agree with Ed Fowler about, in that hard use knives should have a guard, cause you never know what will happen. I wont go as far as he does, in that a deep finger cutout, like the Commander or AFCK or Kasper designs, is enough for me.
The vapor has replaced my TSEK for EDC. Its smaller and cuts a little better due to the full flat grind and the thinner material. Also, the blade to handle ratio of the TSEK just irritates me. The Vapor is still a $20 knife, sometimes lower now that Wal-Mart has them on rollback. CRKT's folders seem to be an all or nothing deal. I loved my M-16 and KFF, but hated the carbon fiber mini M-16 from a few years ago. I also broke some off the tip of the m16, but I was able to grind a new point in a few minutes (70 or 80) with a DMT. They seem to be a love em or hate em kind of folder. CRKT's recent steel choices have left me without a desire for any but a few that didnt get downgraded, but as Cliff points out, their AUS-4 will hold a working edge for a long time if properly sharpened and used for soft material. Of course he also says the same for a knife essentially made from mystery steel, unhardened, if it could be hardened by heat treating in the first place. His tension bar knife review is worth a read if you havent already.
The vapor has replaced my TSEK for EDC. Its smaller and cuts a little better due to the full flat grind and the thinner material. Also, the blade to handle ratio of the TSEK just irritates me. The Vapor is still a $20 knife, sometimes lower now that Wal-Mart has them on rollback. CRKT's folders seem to be an all or nothing deal. I loved my M-16 and KFF, but hated the carbon fiber mini M-16 from a few years ago. I also broke some off the tip of the m16, but I was able to grind a new point in a few minutes (70 or 80) with a DMT. They seem to be a love em or hate em kind of folder. CRKT's recent steel choices have left me without a desire for any but a few that didnt get downgraded, but as Cliff points out, their AUS-4 will hold a working edge for a long time if properly sharpened and used for soft material. Of course he also says the same for a knife essentially made from mystery steel, unhardened, if it could be hardened by heat treating in the first place. His tension bar knife review is worth a read if you havent already.
As far as I know the Aus4 testing Cliff showed so far was only slicing cardboard with a very coarse finish (80 grit). As for other uses, the softness might begin to show in the form of excessive rolling, I'd imagine. I haven't used it myself, but I think it's a passable knife steel. I did really like Cold Steel's 440A (supposedly cold treated), and it's not too far in terms of carbon content from from that. But 420J2 is pretty much a joke to me. Still waiting for Cliff to try an F4 in that steel.
Cliff Stamp
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kel_aa said:As far as I know the Aus4 testing Cliff showed so far was only slicing cardboard with a very coarse finish ...
Yes, you can enhance the slicing edge retention greatly with lower grit finishes, in is often why certain makers even get a reputation for high edge retention because they leave the edges extremely coarse. Of course you also have to consider edge wear, for example if you are sharpening 420J2 at 90 grit silicon carbide to make it last as long as S30V sharpened at 600 grit diamond then you will wear out the 420J2 blade extremely rapidly, of course they are cheaper, but not that much cheaper.
As for other uses, the softness might begin to show in the form of excessive rolling, I'd imagine.
Yes, I think for example scraping wood for fire starting tinder would be a decent comparison. Stop say at the point where the blade would fail to slice newsprint as at this point it has trouble doing fine work in general. You want a very fine polish for this of course and as well the way you increase slicing aggression is by lowering the edge angle significantly and this won't tend to work well on scraping. Carving hardwoods can be used as well, but this takes a really long time even on the softer steels. Note 420J2 is actually fairly hard if you compare it so many types of well respected knives, for example machetes are not sharpened constantly even during chopping woods.
-Cliff