AUS-8 vs 8Cr13MoV steel for EDC knives?

J

JDX

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I'm looking for a great EDC knife under $50. I've noticed some are made with AUS-8 steel and some use 8Cr13MoV steel. I was wondering which is better for an EDC, also which is more rust resistant/ rust proof. I've been looking at Spyderco Resilience, Ontario Utilitac II, Boker Kalashnikov 74, and Ontario Rat 1.

So which is a better steel, and which of the listed choices are best? (Feel free to give me recommendations for other knives!)
 
For just a few dollars over your budget I prefer the Delica in VG-10. It's been a long-running staple in the Spyderco catalog for good reason. And VG-10 tops both steels IMO.

If you want something bigger the Endura is another great knife for slightly more than the Delica.
 
I have plenty of knives in both steels, and to be totally honest, you won't notice much of a difference in an EDC knife. AUS 8 and 8Cr13MoV are actually very similar, with most knowledgeable users giving a slight (and I mean slight) edge to AUS 8. They are both moderately rust resistant and sharpen up pretty easily, so I don't think you'll have a problem with either.

As for the knives themselves, I own an Ontario Utilitac II. Great knife, sturdy as hell, fires out fast. I recommend this knife to everyone I know based on my actual experience with it. Plus it comes in many different configurations.



I know it's smaller a Resilience, but I owned a Spyderco Tenacious for a few days and it's from the same line of value knives. Great build quality, and the G-10 handle felt great in hand. The blade shape of these knives make them awesome cutters.



I've never owned a Boker, but if you search around the forum you will find A LOT of love for the Ontario Rat 1. It's just a reliable knife with solid build and a great reputation. Good luck with your search, man.

EDITED TO ADD: You asked for suggestions, so here's mine. Check out kershawguy.com and see some of his Kershaw blems. They are factory seconds but you can find a lot of good ones for around your budget. Superior steel and made in the USA. Some that come to mind are the Kershaw Knockout, Blur, Leek and Skyline.
 
Try an Enlan EL-02B. It has an Axis like lock and it is an awesome knife for the money. It threw out the RAT1 from my pocket.
 
I'd like to preface this statement by saying this is all from personal experience and not scientific data.

AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV have very similar wear resistance qualities, in that they will both become dull after roughly the same amount of time. Both strop very easily, and can be brought to extremely fine edges.

I have found that AUS-8 is more impact resistant, the edge will roll instead of chipping most of the time, holds a fine edge about half as long as 8Cr13MoV, but will hold a working edge for quite some time.

8Cr13MoV is more prone to chipping, but holds a fine edge for about twice as long as AUS-8.

I would honestly say that the knife you choose should depend entirely on what kind of tasks they knives are likely to encounter. The Resilience is fully flat-ground and is a good slicer, but it is certainly no beater knife. The Utilitac won't slice nearly as well, but it has a much more rugged build overall.

For typical EDC light cutting, the Resilience will likely be the better choice. For more work-oriented cutting, I would suggest the Utilitac. Having owned both of these, I would go with the Utilitac every time just because I stay away from FFG blades.

I don't trust Boker outside of the plus and tree lines, and I don't like the looks of the RAT 1. I have no experience or information about those other than what is available on dealer websites.
 
There is more to selecting a knife than blade steel; and more to choosing a blade steel than throwing out some letters & numbers. Two comparably shaped blades in the same steel, but by different makers, can perform very differently depending on heat treat and blade geometry. It is good to be aware of the steels, and to consider which is best for your purposes...but it isn't the best starting point unless there is one you just want to try.

That said, AUS8 and 8Cr13MoV are fairly comparable, performance-wise, if all things are equal. They are both "stainless"; but I believe AUS8 is more corrosion resistant. Both are easy to sharpen, and will take a good edge. Edge retention is decent - you'll have to sharpen it more than some higher priced steels; but, as mentioned, sharpening is easier.

Best choice will depend on what you like aesthetically, and what you plan to do with it. How big a blade you want, assisted vs manual (and thumbstud vs flipper), handle material, etc all come into play.
In your price range, there are a lot of choices from many manufacturers - help us narrow things down a bit, or you could end up with a really long list to investigate.
 
shqxk said:
Japanese steel always > Chinese steel.
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That's a bit too broad-reaching of a statement to be accurate. Steels cannot really be described as "better" or "worse" than others within reason, as they all have different ideal applications.

Even if it were reasonable to say steels were better or worse, that statement also is too unspecific. Are you saying that ATS-34 is better than D2? AUS4 is better than 9Cr13MoV? What about heat treatments? Grinds? There's too much to consider to make a flat statement like that.

The two steels in question are so similar that it comes down to what they're likely to be used for. Tradeoffs, not different quality levels. AUS8 will take more stress but doesn't hold the edge as well, 8Cr13MoV will keep a fine edge longer but is likely to chip if it hits a hard surface.
 
Comeuppance said:
That's a bit too broad-reaching of a statement to be accurate. Steels cannot really be described as "better" or "worse" than others within reason, as they all have different ideal applications.

Even if it were reasonable to say steels were better or worse, that statement also is too unspecific. Are you saying that ATS-34 is better than D2? AUS4 is better than 9Cr13MoV? What about heat treatments? Grinds? There's too much to consider to make a flat statement like that.

The two steels in question are so similar that it comes down to what they're likely to be used for. Tradeoffs, not different quality levels. AUS8 will take more stress but doesn't hold the edge as well, 8Cr13MoV will keep a fine edge longer but is likely to chip if it hits a hard surface.
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I'm just kidding don't take it to serious my friend:D

Once Sal Glessser said that AUS8 has finer grain than 8Cr13MoV

There is very litle to go on. Spyderco began listing 8Cr13MoV on the blades of its byrd brand models a couple of years ago. Perhaps Spyderco was the first company to actually do a chemical analysis on the steel. Before that, all companies making knives in China just listed "440" on their blades or nothing at all. Now there are many that are beginning to list the actual steels being used in the blades.

In CATRA lab tests at Spyderco, 8Cr13MoV edge retention was in the area of AUS-8. The steel held thin edge angles quite well and would perform at a fairly hard Rc. Corrosion resistance was not as good as AUS-8. AUS-8 will get sharper as the steel has a very homogenous grain structure and the foundry, Aichi in Japan, does a very good job at refinining.

Thanx for the defense Joe, Brownshoe is just being Brownshoe. He wouldn't take Spyderco's word for much of anything. He's quite bright and has much knowledge, but his dislike for Spyderco is great. We just agree to disagree.
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Knives I would recommend in those steels:

AUS8:
Cold Steel Code 4
Cold Steel Tuff Lite
Cold Steel American Lawman
Ontario Utilitac II
CRKT Eraser

8Cr13MoV:
Spyderco Tenacious / Resilience
Spyderco Byrd Cara Cara 2
Enlan EL-01
Enlan EL-02
SanRenMu 710
Kershaw Chill
 
maverick3981 said:
Try an Enlan EL-02B. It has an Axis like lock and it is an awesome knife for the money. It threw out the RAT1 from my pocket.
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Note no knives other than Benchmade's (and HK/Lone Wolf's) have "Axis locks", its a proprietary design and must be licensed. Enlan, Ganzo (and others) use a non-licensed version of the lock that functions the same but it is not an "Axis lock" in the sense they have no right to call it that, none, zero, a blatant rip off. Notice no American companies other than BKC uses it because they all respect simple copyright / trademark / patent laws (and/or just don't want to get sued).
 
Cereal_killer said:
Note no knives other than Benchmade's (and HK/Lone Wolf's) have "Axis locks", its a proprietary design and must be licensed. Enlan, Ganzo (and others) use a non-licensed version of the lock that functions the same but it is not an "Axis lock" in the sense they have no right to call it that, none, zero, a blatant rip off. Notice no American companies other than BKC uses it because they all respect simple copyright / trademark / patent laws (and/or just don't want to get sued).
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I'll add to that and mention that both of the EL-02s I handled had sticky axis locks. It's also worth noting that Enlan primarily uses proprietary pivot hardware which can make adjustment difficult. While they are finely-built knives, it's something to consider.
 
This knife will be used for very different purposes, I'll bring it camping,
Hiking, and to work. I have to cut through cord/wire, rope, rubber hosing occasionally. Aesthetically, it doesn't really matter. Although I will say that I dont want the handle to be any bright colors, but that's about it. I will MOST likely get a partially serated blade, since I have to slice through some materials (pallets wrapped in layers of plastic wrap, pvc pipes, and I already noted the others above.

Sorry for my lack of experience, I just want a knife that will last more than 5 years AT LEAST.

This knife has to be comfortable in the hand, I'd actually prefer the knife not to be lightweight, I'd like for it to be weather proof, and when I say that, I just mean water, dirt, and very rarely, heat.


I recently discovered that there are different shaped blades. The only ones I know are drop point (just heard of it, not sure of looks) and tanto.


Sorry for the confusion.
 
JDX said:
This knife will be used for very different purposes, I'll bring it camping,
Hiking, and to work. I have to cut through cord/wire, rope, rubber hosing occasionally. Aesthetically, it doesn't really matter. Although I will say that I dont want the handle to be any bright colors, but that's about it. I will MOST likely get a partially serated blade, since I have to slice through some materials (pallets wrapped in layers of plastic wrap, pvc pipes, and I already noted the others above.

Sorry for my lack of experience, I just want a knife that will last more than 5 years AT LEAST.

This knife has to be comfortable in the hand, I'd actually prefer the knife not to be lightweight, I'd like for it to be weather proof, and when I say that, I just mean water, dirt, and very rarely, heat.


I recently discovered that there are different shaped blades. The only ones I know are drop point (just heard of it, not sure of looks) and tanto.


Sorry for the confusion.
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Sounds like you want the Utilitac.

ontario-knife-company-utilitac-ii-jpt-4s-o8917-large.jpg

Sturdy, hefty, comfy, partially-serrated tanto, not expensive, good thick impact-resistant AUS8, flow-through construction that makes cleaning extremely easy, with materials that are resistant to heat and corrosion.
 
Handle the knives for feel and comfort. The steels are so close, it will depend on who makes the knife and how you sharpen it. Old testing of a Byrd Cara Cara and RAT 1 left the Byrd in the lead for edge holding, but not by much. A rehardened RAT 1 was also in the mix, and tied the Byrd. Byrd/Spyderco 8CrMoV is good stuff.
 
Comeuppance said:
Sounds like you want the Utilitac.

View attachment 420311

Sturdy, hefty, comfy, partially-serrated tanto, not expensive, good thick impact-resistant AUS8, flow-through construction that makes cleaning extremely easy, with materials that are resistant to heat and corrosion.
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The utilitac's have a back spacer (but maybe you mean something else by "flow-threw").

Perhaps your thinking of my utilitac's, I put stand off's on them both but its a little more in-depth of a job than on say a BM 710.

Regardless of factory back spacer or after market stand off' I concur a utilitac would be a great knife for the OP, my preference is for the round handle version but I can't argue the lock bar on the coffin handle version is physically larger.
 
Cereal_killer said:
The utilitac's have a back spacer (but maybe you mean something else by "flow-threw").

Perhaps your thinking of my utilitac's, I put stand off's on them both but its a little more in-depth of a job than on say a BM 710.

Regardless of factory back spacer or after market stand off' I concur a utilitac would be a great knife for the OP, my preference is for the round handle version but I can't argue the lock bar on the coffin handle version is physically larger.
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Right you are - I was mis-remembering. I gave mine to a friend after customizing it, so I didn't have it in-hand.
 
JDX said:
This knife will be used for very different purposes, I'll bring it camping,
Hiking, and to work. I have to cut through cord/wire, rope, rubber hosing occasionally. Aesthetically, it doesn't really matter. Although I will say that I dont want the handle to be any bright colors, but that's about it. I will MOST likely get a partially serated blade, since I have to slice through some materials (pallets wrapped in layers of plastic wrap, pvc pipes, and I already noted the others above.

Sorry for my lack of experience, I just want a knife that will last more than 5 years AT LEAST.

This knife has to be comfortable in the hand, I'd actually prefer the knife not to be lightweight, I'd like for it to be weather proof, and when I say that, I just mean water, dirt, and very rarely, heat.
Click to expand...

There are some great threads on knives under $50 here that should help you out on your decision, and even a couple on the RAT1 vs. everyone else, and likewise other forum favorites (such as the Utilitac) as well.

As far as the steels go, I agree with what has been said before on this thread. I think the manufacturer and the knife design will count for as much or more of the utility value of the knife rather than the steel. I have several knives in both steels (RAT1, Utilitac II, Kershaw(s), Tenacious, etc.) and all perform about the same. Due to design, some of these knives slice better than others, some have sturdier edges (the Tenacious will outslice the RAT1 all day, but the edge is much thinner) and all are easy to sharpen and work well for me.

I use these particular large folders for work in my construction job and a couple have now been on the job for years. They are used for my harder use jobs of cutting up trash, boxes, fiberglass strapping, insulation, opening caulk tubes, etc. While I don't abuse these knives, they get every dirty job there is with no concern for their welfare. Their job is to do the bad stuff so my smaller traditional knife in my pocket doesn't have to do it. The RAT1 in particular has seen a ton of work on the job is one of my favorite work knives. My only gripe about these two steels is that they don't hold an edge longer. On the other hand, it is easy enough to touch up the edges on site as needed, even on site.

I would spend my time and money on the knife I want and use these two steels as a baseline. Plenty of options for you there.

Robert
 
I much prefer AUS8 to 8CR. It's tougher, yet easier to sharpen. 8CR has seemed brittle to me, holding a fine edge on light cutting longer, but losing it quickly on medium duty cutting and being much harder to get back. Again, just my opinion, but I think 8CR gets brittle faster than AUS8, making the industry standard 58-59 RC being too hard for it.

The Ontario Utilitac is a hefty and tough knife. If you only want partial serrations, I would go for the recurve model since the tanto is over serrated in my opinion, and it places the serrations to where you don't have as much hassle resharpening the recurve.

The RAT is a great basic EDC and cutter knife, but the UT2 has tougher liners and the liner and stop pin are further apart making it to be likely tougher than the RAT. The RAT is no slouch though.

Just my opinion, but the Chinese Spydercos aren't worth their price. You mentioned camping and hiking, which to me dictates occasional hard use. Spydercos break easier in the first place at the spydie hole with the flat grind, and add the brittle MOV steel and it's no wonder there are numerous accounts of them breaking. It's still a good knife, but my Tenacious was no where near the same league my Utilitac is, yet was almost twice the cost. Realistically, they're made by a company who makes $10-$15 knives. They're good at making $10-$15 knives and that's about what I think a fair price for the Tenacious would be, but I have no experience with tye model you're looking at.

As for the Boker, just don't. Boker is the king of finding $5 Chinese knives and selling them with their logo for a 1000% profit. I may get trashed on for this, but Boker is just rebranded crap unless you pay over $300.
 
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