I am looking for gifts for groomsmen, all are avid hunters, all already have field knives. I am thinking about getting them some boning knives for bulk meat processing as well as day to day use in the kitchen. I have a ton on my plate and haven't left myself time to do a ton of research. I have more or less narrowed it down to a Shun Kanso (aus 10A) or Messermeister Oliva (1.4116). I would be open to other options keeping it close to 100 or less. My biggest question is does anyone have a link to direct comparisons of the two steels, just the fact that I cant find a direct comparison makes me think the aus 10a may out class the other to the other point that they aren't comparable? It looks like there are more than a few other names for the 1.4116 I may have already found a comparison but glossed over it. The biggest parameter I am concerned with is edge retention, all of the groomsmen can sharpen a knife but there's nothing more annoying than continually touching an edge up in the middle of a session processing 200 lbs of meat.
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Aus10a vs 1.4116 Shun vs Messermeister
- Thread starter Buddro
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Below I’ve added some technical info about both steels. My experience: AUS10 holds an edge noticeably longer, but can rust if not taken care of (still plenty stainless though).
1.4116 is VERY resistant to rust, but needs sharpened often. In the kitchen I prefer 1.4116 just because I can toss it in the dishwasher. For everything else, I’d prefer AUS10.
AUS10
1.4116
1.4116 is VERY resistant to rust, but needs sharpened often. In the kitchen I prefer 1.4116 just because I can toss it in the dishwasher. For everything else, I’d prefer AUS10.
AUS10
1.4116
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1.4116 is fairly close to 420HC in composition
AUS10 is similar to VG10 or 154CM
AUS10 is similar to VG10 or 154CM
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In composition, but not in all performance metrics. 420HC is significantly tougher.
The data below is from Dr. Larrin. 420HC and 4116 are the two left-most points on the chart. Larrin gives 4116 a 2.5/10 for toughness, 420HC gets 9/10.
I would recommend the AUS 10A option over the 4116 option B Buddro I would expect your friends will enjoy 10A a lot more.
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But they are ranked the same for edge retention, which is what the OP was asking about.
I appreciate the help. Looks like the aus10a blade is the way to go, I'm a little unsure how the offset, strongly curved Japanese designs will suit their tastes but heck its a gift. I know I would lean that way myself but I like trying new things and already have a go to boning knife of a more traditional western design.
After the post I got to thinking about it and checked, looks like the Messermeister SHOULD have the same or very similar steel to my Whusthofs. I love them but they do leave a lot to be desired in the edge retention department.
After the post I got to thinking about it and checked, looks like the Messermeister SHOULD have the same or very similar steel to my Whusthofs. I love them but they do leave a lot to be desired in the edge retention department.
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According to Pete's tests on Cedric & Ada, AUS-10 (no A) made from about 2 to 5 more rope cuts than 4116 (which I think is an alias for 1.4116).
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In 2018, I accidentally dropped an AUS-8 knife out in a sheep pasture. In early 2023, I found it. It had a few small, light patches of rust that were easily scrubbed off with standard dish-washing materials.
Dr. Larrin Thomas rated AUS-8 as a 7 out of 10 for corrosion resistance. 1.4116 got an 8.
I used a Cold Steel bird and trout in AUS8a as my life jacket knife for kayaking. I quickly gave that up; perhaps it was due to the bead blasted finish. My buck small vantage was able to fill that role no problem. It had 420 hc.
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Knives are complicated. Lots of people have no trouble with D2 rusting, but I have had D2 rust just from being taken outdoors on a hot, humid day.
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10a is a significant upgrade from 8a.
And it's all "a" by the way. There's no not austenite AUS-8 or 10.
I've spotted 10 a little. Spotten S35VN and 45 too. It's fine.
My friend Timeric has a Swiss Army Knife. He will vouch for the steel. Cut things with it.
And it's all "a" by the way. There's no not austenite AUS-8 or 10.
I've spotted 10 a little. Spotten S35VN and 45 too. It's fine.
My friend Timeric has a Swiss Army Knife. He will vouch for the steel. Cut things with it.
AUS10A is the annealed version of AUS10 according to zknives.
Yep. Aus10 has a tendency to rust and I don't know why. My AUS8 knives seem to resist stain much better. I can't figure it out
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More carbon in AUS10. Better edge holding and less stain resistance than AUS8.
Thank you
Thanks for all of the information. I ended up ordering the shun knives for them, they certainly came in with a good edge. Time will tell if it holds up well. I will be sure the guys I give it to know they aren't particularly stain resistant. We live in Arizona and New Mexico so environment won't cause a lot of ruse but I have certainly had some spotting on my D2 and s30v Benchmade knives. Never anything a little Kroil and steel wool wasn't able to erase.
AUS series steel are essentially higher carbon version of 420 steels, all at 13% chrome, with AUS-4 is pretty much 420HC.
AUS-10 has the carbon content similar to 440C/N695, VG10 and 154CM. Yet, with the lower chromium content and no other alloying to make up for that, like the high Mo in 154CM, it is less stainless, but might get better edge stability/toughness.
AUS-10 has the carbon content similar to 440C/N695, VG10 and 154CM. Yet, with the lower chromium content and no other alloying to make up for that, like the high Mo in 154CM, it is less stainless, but might get better edge stability/toughness.