AUS8 vs. 8Cr14

T

truthjc

Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
2
Hi knife enthusiasts,

Not being very knowledgeable of steel and/or knives in general myself, I have a question that I was hoping someone could answer for me. I've been looking into the CRKT M16 and M21 series recently, and am wondering about the durability of the AUS8 and the 8Cr14 steels that these blades are constructed from. Can anyone provide me with some information on how they compare with each other, and how they compare to other steel types that are on the market? On a scale of 1 to 10 regarding durability and overall performance, where do they sit in relation to the rest of the steel types used in making knives? If anyone can provide me with some information regarding this, or direct me to a thread where I might find this information, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for your time!
 
truthjc said:
Hi knife enthusiasts,

Not being very knowledgeable of steel and/or knives in general myself, I have a question that I was hoping someone could answer for me. I've been looking into the CRKT M16 and M21 series recently, and am wondering about the durability of the AUS8 and the 8Cr14 steels that these blades are constructed from. Can anyone provide me with some information on how they compare with each other, and how they compare to other steel types that are on the market? On a scale of 1 to 10 regarding durability and overall performance, where do they sit in relation to the rest of the steel types used in making knives? If anyone can provide me with some information regarding this, or direct me to a thread where I might find this information, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forums. I can't run a search since I'm only a registered user, but I've run Google searches before and you can usually find something within BladeForums to satisfy your query. Just go to Google and type in "Blade Steel Quality" or something like that, and look for results in BladeForums. Should work just fine.

As far as your question is concerned, I am not a steel expert, but AUS-8 usually does the job for a general knife user. There are many steels out there that perform better (154CM, S30V, ZDP189, VG-10) but there are also ones that perform much worse (AUS-4, for example). AUS-8 has decent edge retention and sharpens easily, which a lot of people like.

Basically, unless you're a knife steel freak, AUS-8 will do more than enough. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being ZDP 189 and 1 being a household sponge, AUS-8 probably falls around a 7. Just my opinion. There are a lot of people on here that know a lot about blade steel, so just sit tight and maybe you'll get some other replies.
 
AUS-8 is great for most of those knives. It's easy to sharpen, takes a fine edge, and holds it respectably. Not as long as VG-10 or S30V, but it's lower cost, and very nice. I happen to have a M21 in AUS-8 and a M21-SFG in 8Cr13MoV. The 8Cr13MoV steel is quite comparable to the AUS-8. It's a bit cheaper, and made in china, but it has most of the same properties. :)
 
I have a m16 with AUS8.


Get something else.

The options in the $30 price point are quite numerous before you have to subject yourself to the disappointment of CRKT AUS8.

Oh, and autolawks is completely unnecessary, and in NO WAY does it make the knife safer. I would argue that it makes it less safe, in that it is unnecessarily annoying and complicated to close. Use a knife like a knife, and a liner lock will never fail you.

Just IMHO....of course.
 
Tripton said:
I have a m16 with AUS8.


Get something else.

The options in the $30 price point are quite numerous before you have to subject yourself to the disappointment of CRKT AUS8.

Oh, and autolawks is completely unnecessary, and in NO WAY does it make the knife safer. I would argue that it makes it less safe, in that it is unnecessarily annoying and complicated to close. Use a knife like a knife, and a liner lock will never fail you.

Just IMHO....of course.
Click to expand...

What makes you disappointed? It's not a "super" steel, so edge retention shouldn't be the highest. I found it quite durable. The blade seems to have a bit more "give" or bend in it then my other knifes. Less brittle.

And I (imo) love the AutoLAWKS feature. It isn't hard to use, and it ensures that the blade will never close on you. Even under extreme cross torque.
 
truthjc said:
Hi knife enthusiasts,

Not being very knowledgeable of steel and/or knives in general myself, I have a question that I was hoping someone could answer for me. I've been looking into the CRKT M16 and M21 series recently, and am wondering about the durability of the AUS8 and the 8Cr14 steels that these blades are constructed from. Can anyone provide me with some information on how they compare with each other, and how they compare to other steel types that are on the market? On a scale of 1 to 10 regarding durability and overall performance, where do they sit in relation to the rest of the steel types used in making knives? If anyone can provide me with some information regarding this, or direct me to a thread where I might find this information, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...

Welcome to BladeForums!

AUS8 and 8Cr14 are similar in composition and performance.
I might expect somewhat more variation in the performance of 8Cr14 as I was told by a steel engineer that the Chinese do not hold as tight a tolerance in the compostion of their steels.

as for general performance:
They hold an edge better than 440A or 420HC.
They hold an edge less well than 440C, VG10, 154CM, ATS-34.

AUS8 is well known for taking a very sharp edge.
 
As knarfeng says, AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV are similar in chemical composition. The 8Cr13MoV-type name identifies it as Chinese.

In another thread i said that 8Cr13MoV is the Chinese version, read copy, of AUS-8 and some people reacted very strong against that. Still it's the truth. Here are some more examples of chinese vs others.
AUS8- 8Cr13MoV
1.4116 (common steel in european kitchen knives like Henkel and Zwilling) - 5Cr15MoV
440C - 9Cr18
420 - 3Cr13
Etc.

I personally belive that the difference between the chinese versions and the European/American/Japanese steels are mostly due to inconsistenies in tolerance, microstructure and purity levels. This is from a steel makers perspective though. From the knife performance side the differences might be insignificant. I dont have enough knife experience with these grades to be sure.
//Jerker
 
Another important thing is that the steel is only one component for a good blade. For example, Buck does imho a great job on the 420HC, a "cheap" steel, but they have a great heat treatment. If HT isn't done correctly, even steels like S90V are pretty much worthless.
 
Morales said:
Another important thing is that the steel is only one component for a good blade. For example, Buck does imho a great job on the 420HC, a "cheap" steel, but they have a great heat treatment. If HT isn't done correctly, even steels like S90V are pretty much worthless.
Click to expand...

Morales, I could not agree more. Good heat treated 420 will outperform bad heat treated 12C27, VG10, ZDP or any other steel out there.

"As delivered steel" only holds promise of greatness. Heat treat is the realization of that promise.
 
Morales said:
Another important thing is that the steel is only one component for a good blade. For example, Buck does imho a great job on the 420HC, a "cheap" steel, but they have a great heat treatment. If HT isn't done correctly, even steels like S90V are pretty much worthless.
Click to expand...

I've had major problems with Buck's 420HC knives. They don't hold an edge worth a damn. Slice it through a couple sheets of paper and you'll see what I mean.

While I agree that HT is an important part of the knife blade, so is the consistency in the materials, and the actual composition of the steel being used.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I really appreciate your input. I think I may end up picking up the CRKT M16-14SF with the AUS8 blade and let the chinese keep their steel. I don't expect to use it too heavily, so I think the AUS8 will serve my purposes well enough.

Thanks again!
 
I saw the discussion on AUS-8, so I will ask this question, I bought several Cold Steel ODA's for a very cheap price. Cold Steel says that they are made of AUS-8. Since AUS-8 is a Japanese steel, and the blades are clearly marked "China", and I consider it highly unlikely that the Chinese are importing Japanese steel to build knives, does anyone have any idea what steel these knives are actually made of?
 
fudo said:
I saw the discussion on AUS-8, so I will ask this question, I bought several Cold Steel ODA's for a very cheap price. Cold Steel says that they are made of AUS-8. Since AUS-8 is a Japanese steel, and the blades are clearly marked "China", and I consider it highly unlikely that the Chinese are importing Japanese steel to build knives, does anyone have any idea what steel these knives are actually made of?
Click to expand...

:eek: That's not good. Is "China" stamped on the blade? Or another part of the knife? It could be that it's assembled in China, but the blade is made in Japan. Course I find it unsettling either way. The chemical compositions are so similar that it'd be difficult, if not impossible, to tell them apart. :thumbdn:
 
fudo said:
I saw the discussion on AUS-8, so I will ask this question, I bought several Cold Steel ODA's for a very cheap price. Cold Steel says that they are made of AUS-8. Since AUS-8 is a Japanese steel, and the blades are clearly marked "China", and I consider it highly unlikely that the Chinese are importing Japanese steel to build knives, does anyone have any idea what steel these knives are actually made of?
Click to expand...

Actually, China imports quite a bit of AUS-8. In your case I'm positive you have imported japanese made AUS-8.

Of course I would love to tell you that you are right and you should push for Sandvik steel in the blades and all that. But I know the factory in China that makes the CS-knives and I know that they dont fake brand. So be confident that you have AUS-8. If not it would say 8Cr13MoV on the blade, which to be fair many people considers to be a reasonably good steel.

//Jerker
 
Josh K said:
I've had major problems with Buck's 420HC knives. They don't hold an edge worth a damn. Slice it through a couple sheets of paper and you'll see what I mean.
Click to expand...
Ok, let me put it this way: the HT on my 110 is pretty good (paper and my archenemy cardboard don't have a chance :D) and I read the same statement made by several other people. But after all it is just my own experience and if yours differs from mine it only shows me that HT is not a constant like the steel itself.
I got the impression lately that every large company has some HT issues with certain knife models no matter how good their reputation is. Thank you for sharing your experience with Buck's 420HC, I really appreciate it.
 
Heat treatment IS sensitive. Especially cooling speed. If something goes wrong and for example the cooling speed goes from 2 to 4 minutes it will make a the knife practically unusable due to problem with corrosion and brittleness.

Still, as you all know, some steels have better potential than others to perform well.
 
Josh - Yes, it is stamped "China" on the blade.
Razorsharp - Thank you
 
Morales said:
Ok, let me put it this way: the HT on my 110 is pretty good (paper and my archenemy cardboard don't have a chance :D) and I read the same statement made by several other people. But after all it is just my own experience and if yours differs from mine it only shows me that HT is not a constant like the steel itself.
I got the impression lately that every large company has some HT issues with certain knife models no matter how good their reputation is. Thank you for sharing your experience with Buck's 420HC, I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

:) Np. I have several Buck models in the upgraded (ATS-34/S30V) steels, and those are excellent. I don't have anything against Buck, they make wonderful entry level knives.
 
@Josh -- me too -- i wish they still used BG-42, along with the Bos heat-treat that made for some world-class edge-performance...
 
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