Authenticity questioned

K

Kang Wen

Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
7
Many years ago (a couple of decades ago) I bought a new Victorinox SAK for my father whilst I was Switzerland, and he gave his old, well-used SAK to me. Both were bright red and with a smooth, untextured finish. My father still carries his SAK, today, and it is in perfect working order. The older SAK that he gave to me was well-used and showing signs of age (the very tip of the main blade was missing), but it was still perfectly functional and right up until it was stolen it never suffered from the problem that my current SAK faces... rust.

I know all steels can rust, but I am somewhat taken aback by the speed with which my current SAK has begun to pit. My wife bought it for my just at Christmas and about a month later I noticed visible signs of pitting in the thumb-nail grooves. I take greater care of this SAK than I did of my father's old hand-me-down, and I am a loss to explain why this is happening.

I have considered that it could be the humidity, since when I owned my last SAK I lived in England, and now I live in sub-tropical Hong Kong. Since Christmas, however, the weather here has been cold and generally dry, with only one or two humid days so far. Living in Hong Kong raises another possibility in my mind - fake SAKs. Could mine be a pretender?

I noticed straight away that it was finished in a darker shade of red (almost a burgundy), and had a textured finish, however I put this down to design changes over the last two decades or so. The main blade bears the Victorinox stamp, however, this being the knock-off capital of the world, I see stamps of authenticity on all sorts of fakes and replicas here.

My wife bought the SAK in a shop near our home that sells a wide range of bowies, swords, straight razors and so on, plus a small collection of SAKs. It's not an authorised Victorinox outlet, but the SAK did come with a user manual in a box that looked genuine enough to casual inspection (though, annoyingly, my wife threw these away almost as soon as I had opened the gift).

Does Victorinox vary the type of steel it uses to suit different climates? Is a genuine Victorinox SAK in a sub-tropical country liable to rust up in just a couple of months? I shall step-up my care and maintenance, since the knife is sturdy, generally well-built and holds a great edge (quite besides being a gift from my wife, it's a decent performer and worth holding onto in its own right) but I would appreciate comments and thoughts from more experienced Victorinox owners, since I'm plagued with doubt about whether this shop took my wife for a ride.
 
Welcome to Bladeforums! I hope we can help you. Pictures would make it easier to decide.
 
Welcome! The forum is full of very knowledgeable members who I'm sure can help. A picture would be a good starting point and a big help!
 
It sounds like you might have a SAK with 'Eco' scales, they're made of textured Nylon rather than the smooth Cellidor. I have to confess I've talked to quite a few Victorinox owners from your part of the world and none of them have ever mentioned any additional issues with rust, so I'm a bit concerned that you might have a fake.

That said being an 'Eco' SAK (as I think it is) I've heard that the finish and polish isn't necessarily always as good as on a standard SAK, although I've never seen any evidence of that myself. I've never heard, nor do I believe, that Vic use different steels in different parts of the World.

On the fake front, while there are lots of 'SAK-like' knives out there I only know of one attempt to directly deceive with a Vic fake and that was of a Vic Rescue Tool. Obviously not what you have.

As they say though a picture speaks a thousand words and it would certainly help in this case. Some of all the tools out, front and back, and a look at the tang stamp if you can manage it.

Welcome to the forum BTW. :)
 
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Did she buy it in Mongkok or Wanchai?

I live in HK too and I carry a Victorinox Huntsman I bought at the Victorinox store in Harbour City. No issues with rust whatsoever. I carry mine in a sheath--do you stick yours in your pocket? Sweat could accelerate rusting I guess.

I just checked out a Chinese auction site and there are tons of convincing looking fakes on there. Pics would definitely help. Might be worth buying one from a Victorinox store here if you want to be sure of getting an authentic one--I guess you could also take your knife there for them to check out. There are a bunch of official Victorinox stores here.
 
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Thanks for the quick responses! I will definitely upload some pics when I get home (a bit odd to pull out my SAK and start photographing it in the office).

To answer the questions so far : my wife bought it in Wanchai and I carry it in the same leather Vic belt pouch that I used for my original SAK (the original SAK was stolen, but not the pouch). It may be that I have a condensation issue when going from super cold office environments into hot, humid weather outdoors, but if other people aren't having this issue then I'm curious to understand why. Could be there's something pretty simple I could be doing to better protect the steel.
 
I've been carrying my Huntsman for two years without issue, including in the hot, humid air of Indonesia and the Philippines. If she bought it from SCW Cutlery in Wanchai (I'm betting that's where she got it), there's a good chance you bought a fake. They openly sell fake Benchmade 910 Strykers there for like $35 US a piece! Since she threw the box away, you're not going to get a refund. The only thing I buy from SCW is razor blades for my Dovo Shavette--they're a ripoff for everything else, and it sounds like they might be selling fake Victorinox products too!

Just out of curiosity, how'd you get your SAK stolen?!
 
If I remember correctly I had been using the screwdriver to quickly adjust a screw on a spotting scope stand whilst coaching a shooting match. As soon as the job was done I re-focused my attention on the shooters and the match, without taking time to put the knife away. Finished the match, looked around for my SAK... I quizzed the few remaining competitors as they were drifting away from the firing point, but they all said they hadn't seen it.

I shall check the name of the shop on the way home. I really am hoping it's genuine, though. It's one thing if I get duped - I just feel pretty stupid and quite cross for a while - but it's another thing entirely if someone cheats my wife.
 
Wow, where were you coaching a shooting match? Not in HK, right? Sorry to hear your knife got stolen--I don't usually let things out of my sight for that reason.

The issue could be the leather sheath. Mine is nylon and leather--the acids in leather can react with steel to cause them to rust, especially when it's as warm and humid as it's been recently. I left a Bark River Golok in a sheath for a weak and it rusted up, but I managed to polish out almost all of it in about a minute. I'm storing it out of the sheath now with a layer of mineral oil on it. Then again, if you used the same sheath in old blighty, I don't see why you'd have issues here if you never had any in England.
 
The shooting match was at Bisley, in the UK. There's not much shooting in Hong Kong (certainly no serious competitive shooting).

I checked the shop on the way home. It is, indeed, SCW. Still, fingers crossed, my SAK could still be the genuine article. I have just realised I have no idea how to add photos. Is it permissible on this forum to link to Flickr?
 
The rust issue makes me think it's a fake , genuine SAK's are nearly impervious except for the files . Even ECO knives don't exhibit the probem .

I've carried SAK's in leather pouches for years , never a spec of rust . Vegetable tanned , not a problem , unwashed chrome tanned could be a problem .

Good luck with your replacement ,

Personally , I don't like fakes or those who peddle them .

Chris
 
Kang Wen: I knew it was SCW from the start. ;) You can link photos--I've done it before without issue. There is some competitive shooting here, actually: I know there's a Swiss Rifle Association or something.

cdf: got my first Wenger when I was seven years old and it didn't rust, but I did cut myself on it right away and bled for hours. lol. I hate fakes too. I'm pretty sure SCW sold me a fake pair of hair clippers back in '05.
 
Rifles aren't really my thing--more into combat handguns myself. Either way, HK's an expensive place to shoot in. You need to jump through all sorts of hoops, which is why I collect knives now. lol.

Can't be sure about the SAK, but maybe someone else who is more passionate about them can help...looks real enough to me!
 
At first sight, it looks like it is a real Victorinox.

I did never have rust on my own SAK's, but I do have a bit of rust on a few that I bought second hand, it was already there. If the blade gets a little bit damaged, it is more prone to rust. The nail notch and engraved text on the blade seem to be the typical places where rust first occurs.
 
looks vic, but it makes no sense either for a clever fake to rust, especially since the most common blade steel would have been more like a 420J stainless steel (which accordingly is even more resistant to rusting); well, not unless it's a carbon steel blade that has been chromed.
question is if the blade is habitually wiped or washed clean with every use as a preventive measure?
 
I've bought and carried Vic SAKs of all shapes and sizes for over 20 years with the most recent purchase last summer, and I have carried them in front and rear pockets along with in leather and nylon pouches. I have never experienced rust of any kind. I've carried them in all kinds of weather, and several different types of climates.

I also bought 3 different boxes full of assorted Vic SAK knives about 4 years ago that were confiscated at airports. I'd say out of the 60+ knives that I bought - half were in rough shape. None had any rust. The biggest issue was either hard use / abuse or severe dirt & sand build up keeping the implements from opening.

Yours sounds like it might be a fake. I'd consider writing a letter to Vic explaining the situation and see what they suggest. I have written to them in the past and they do actually respond, although it may take some time to get the response back.
 
You know I've re-written this response a couple of times, as I keep changing my mind on whether this is fake or not. Almost everything about it looks spot on, the only thing that's giving me pause are the tang stamps. They just look a little 'heavy handed' if you know what I mean, just a little too deep and not quite crisp enough. Without seeing them in person though and having a good look I can't be totally sure. Even now I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As to the rust, Harayasu has it spot on IMO. I have seen a good number of second hand SAKs with rust on them, and it happens in exactly the same places as yours has it. The only difference is that they were much older, years and years not months.

My feeling is to still go back to the fact it's an 'Eco' edition. Other than the different scales I've heard lots of opinions as to the cost saving in these SAKs. Possibilities are lower QC checks, cheaper liners, 'seconds' tools or less polishing time on the tools. The last might be a reason for the poorer stamps and also account for the rust spots. Much of the rust resistance the Vic has comes from the excellent finish.

Sorry I can't be more conclusive. :(


PS a quick question, can you think of anything that it might have come in contact with that might be mildly corrosive? Even food stuffs like fruit or vinegar could be playing a factor. Just a thought.
 
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This type of rust has to be a moisture/water problem. From the pictures, it looks like a genuine ecoline model, but somehow I suspect it has been stored or carried wet, or moist or exposed to high humidity/ saline humidity (like near the ocean) to get this mild type of corrosion. Just my opinion. A little oil and a wiping/buffing should solve it, and if it happens again, I'd again question its authenticity.
 
Kang Wen said:
Many years ago (a couple of decades ago) I bought a new Victorinox SAK for my father whilst I was Switzerland, and he gave his old, well-used SAK to me. (snipped)

It's not an authorised Victorinox outlet, but the SAK did come with a user manual in a box that looked genuine enough to casual inspection (though, annoyingly, my wife threw these away almost as soon as I had opened the gift).

(snipped).
Click to expand...

Do eco SAKs come in a box? All the ones I have bought came in bubble packages (hard plastic). Could that be a red flag?

EDIT Never mind, they come in boxes too
 
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