Auto leaf springs?

N

Nathan B.

Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
4
How good are auto leaf springs for forging knifes? Are there other "scrap" metal out there to use for knifes? Is there a way to know what these springs are made of?
Thanks
Nathan
 
The bottom line is ..You dont really know what you have. You have an educated guess and sometime it works out and sometimes it doesnt. I have forged a truck leaf spring into a large bowie only to find out it wouldnt harden in oil.( I had to water quench it) The older you go with leaf springs the better in my experience. Here is a URL to some info you might find usefull

http://anvilfire.com/FAQs/junkyard_steel.htm
 
Nathan,
Try going by a truck spring shop. They have to make a lot of custom leaf springs, and they should have a lot of scrap pieces just waiting for the recycling guy to pick up. They'll probably give you some scrap pieces free, and if you ask the owner he'll most likely know what kind of steel it is.
I went by a couple of shops in Baltimore years ago, and the owners were both very helpful.
Bob
 
I dont know about the rest of the spring shops, but my local one is now just an install shop.they didnt even know what kind of spring steel they had(wtfo)
According to the manager "nobody cares what kind of spring steel is under there truck".I went in the shop to talk to an old timer there in the shop they had it all, 2 power hammers a huge anvil 2 gas forges ht ovens yada yada yada.all of it had alot of dust on it and the only steel they could id as 5160 was in the back yard under a bunch of junk with vines all over it:( .looks like another victory for outsourcing.
 
As a footnote to this discussion I saw a History Channel special on metals the other night. In the show they said that all of the metals used in manufacturing an automobile today were not in existence 10 years ago. I dont really know if that is true or not but, its something to think about when you hit the scrap yard.
 
Bob Lyon said:
Nathan,
Try going by a truck spring shop. They have to make a lot of custom leaf springs, and they should have a lot of scrap pieces just waiting for the recycling guy to pick up. They'll probably give you some scrap pieces free, and if you ask the owner he'll most likely know what kind of steel it is.
I went by a couple of shops in Baltimore years ago, and the owners were both very helpful.
Bob
Click to expand...


Yes, but don't tell them you're using it to make knives. Many people have no conception of the time and skill that goes into one and you'll find the shop owner saying, "OK, here's some cutoffs, but make me a Bowie while you're at it".
So he'll end up with a several hundred dollar knife, for scrap that's worthless (or at most worth a few cents in recycling) to him.:eek:;)

Spring steel isn't that expensive new.:D
 
Nathan, If you can get your hands on some older leaf springs go for it. I'd say from 1080's or sooner. There one of my more favorite so called junk steels.

tnmike, Since most steel is made of recycled material I would think every batch is going to be different. Is the US exporting any iron ore is all scrap now?
 
Ray I agree with you on the leaf spring steel. The older the better. Im really not sure what the new leaf spring steel is. I made a bowie out of a newer piece about a year ago and it would not harden in oil. I had to water quench it and it did not crack.

I know the scrapyard here in my area is loading all the scrap steel they get onto rail cars. I asked where it was going and they said to China to be made into rebar...Dont know about the iron ore but I know that is one thing we have rich deposits of.

There is a very tight control process on the ANSI series of steels and if it is sold as such has to hit a tolerance to be labeled as such. (ie 1095 etc)
 
tnmike, The bad thing is 1095 is now 1084/95. The two bird thing. I've done alright over the years with leaf springs. Here's some blades I've been working since Friday. Forged 3 or them Friday and two yesterday. Also got them heat treated last night and 95% ground today. These were forged out of leaf spring material I picked up about 12 years ago. The blades are dark because of the etch.
 
every knife here was made from old "free" steel; all leaf spring steel except the small kitchen knife which was made from "free" L-6 steel.

http://www.flex.net/~mitchwilkins/homepage/page2.htm

And this, I made from spring steel as well... it passed. This was my cut'n bend blade for my JS test. Cheapass palate wood handle (oak? ash?), accented by "free" fire blued wagon wheel tyre iron guard. How much better can it get?? My big expense here was propane and a few 2x72 belts.

http://www.flex.net/~mitchwilkins/knife/testblade01.jpg


I've not bought steel is so long I wouldn't have a clue what to pay for it. A great deal of steel selection and use is an experience sorta thing. Ray, Nick myself and dozens of other guys on here have just learned to test stuff and see what's up.

tnmike... I'm curious about your "won't quench" story. Please don't think this a criticisim, but I've never heard of a spring steel either 51 or 10 series not quenching in oil and it brought to mind this story.
I was out cleaning up in my forge several years ago and noticed I was low in my oil quench tank, I had changed the oil in my little ford tractor recently so I made up the volume with some of that old oil sitting near by. In hindsight the viscosity didn't look so different to me. Several weeks went by before I used the quenchant again and lo and behold, nothing wouldn't harden!! Hell, I'd forgotten about adding the damned tractor oil and my first (misguided) thought was: " this is bad steel!!" (of course dumbass didn't remember the blades he'd made with the same batch of steel that had hardened beautifully in the past...) I'll cut to the chase; I realized finally what I'd done, went and got some honest to God Texaco quenchant and since then, have never had that happen again. All this witch's brew of quenching oils I think, is a big problem for people starting out to forge. I say: use free steel, buy the damned quenchant. That said I've recently had success with brine on spring steels but most of that success is due to experience, which I must say, is priceless.

m
 
No criticism felt anvil. Let me go into more detail... I was working on this piece in another makers shop and Im really not sure what his quenchant was except I know it was quenching oil and that he used it all the time with success. The point I was trying to make was that you really dont know what youve got in junkyard steel. If you can get a lot of the same material and have time to play with hardening and tempering its worth your time. One piece can give you a fit. Ive made some nice pieces out of junk and yes it can be done. I have no doubt that this steel was properly quenched but it would not harden like it should have until it was water quenched it. We tried a differential oil quench three times with the same result. I cant explain it except that to say that particular leaf spring was not a 51 or 10 series steel. It was a new, very heavy leaf from a truck spring about 3/8 thick. Anyone out there know the metallurgury in heavy leaf springs?? (The History Channel special about all the steel in a new car didnt exist 10 years ago came to mind.)

One good point you made is get good quenchant oil. Ive used motor oil/tranny oil mixes, fish oil, peanut oil etc but I think a factory made quenchant with charted cooling times is money well spent. Ive been using a biodegradable quenchent made from soybean oil with a 625F flash point. (made in Iowa) I really like the results Ive been getting from it.
 
tnmike, A good deal of truck leaf springs are 6150 but if that was the case it should have still hardend in the oil. Years ago I got 4 racks of 1959 Nash/Metro leaf springs close to the time I first started. I was using drain oil and they would not harden so they sat for close to 10 years and I decided to give them a try again. This time I had Texaco Type B quenching oil and they hardend up just fine. How's the soybean oil smell?
 
Really a slight almost neutral smell. ..I couldnt find any texaco oil . Chevron makes a similar product but they dont sell in small quantities.
 
I've had good luck with Jeep and old Mustang springs. If you have access to a 4WD shop, they throw away tons of springs when they do suspension lifts and they will probably let you go through their trash for free...free is good.
 
tnmike said:
... Ive been using a biodegradable quenchent made from soybean oil with a 625F flash point. (made in Iowa) I really like the results Ive been getting from it.
Click to expand...

Mike,

Where are you getting the oil you mentioned above?
 
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