axe, big chopper or khukuri

H

hannibal lecter spyderco

Joined
Mar 29, 2001
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Someone gave me a gerber axe for x-mas a while back, when I go out to the woods I don't really chop down things for the most part. there enough firewood lying around to be collected. So anyways for those who are more experience than myself, am i doing something wrong or chopping something down with an axe is damn hard. I respect all those early settlers who chop trees down with axes to build their homes. I tried to use the gerber axe it did its job but damn took a lot of energy to gut through a small log in the woods. The gerber axe went through the log, had small chips in it. Do you guys have better luck with big chopper blades? or a khukuri? What makes a good chopper? I was thinking of making my own khukuri from a truck spring that I have lying around just for fun it can't be that hard right?
 
If you convex it,it would be a much better chopper.
I have a convexed 12 inch Tramontina machete,that is much better than a similar weight non convexed axe IMHO
 
I'd guess that:
A.) It wasn't sharpened right
B.) it wasn't heat treated right (shouldn't have chipped)
C.) your technique was bad
D.) you were trying to cut too large a log for the axe
E.) some combination of the above.

Generally speaking, it's easiest to keep to chopping wood that is the size of your wrist or smaller. I try to keep it under 6 inches. For larger stuff, a full size axe will make it much easier.

And yes, no matter what you do, it's work.
 
How big was the log? How big was the axe? What kind of wood was it?

I put my wetterlings 19" axe through 6" dry spruce or ponderosa pine in about fifteen swings. A 24" axe takes maybe four swings for the same wood.

But to go through a two-foot tree with the Wetterlings can take a LONG time. I am not even sure how long - I've generally given up. It takes me something like 30-50 swings with a full-size axe to put down a 2' diameter ponderosa. But I assume you are not packing a three-foot axe around with you!
 
misanthropist said:
How big was the log? How big was the axe? What kind of wood was it?

I put my wetterlings 19" axe through 6" dry spruce or ponderosa pine in about fifteen swings. A 24" axe takes maybe four swings for the same wood.

But to go through a two-foot tree with the Wetterlings can take a LONG time. I am not even sure how long - I've generally given up. It takes me something like 30-50 swings with a full-size axe to put down a 2' diameter ponderosa. But I assume you are not packing a three-foot axe around with you!
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The log was around 12 inches I did miss and hit the dirt a couple of times but maybe it gerber makes cheap axes or something because that thing chipped. It was a full size axe. I don't know how you guys do it man I was huffing and puffing after going through that log. I think realistically i wouldn't want a hatchet to cut even 6 inches timber I think you have better luck with big blade
 
If I were going to cut down a large tree with an ax, I would use a large double bit ax.FOR ME that would be more efficient that any big chopper knife or khuk.
 
The above comments are all good thoughts. In addition, permit me to ask how far apart were your initial axe strikes? Many newcomers make the mistake of placing their first cuts too close together and making too narrow of a V shaped channel into the log. After the first few chips, they no longer get big chips flying out of the V groove. Instead, they are working in a narrow groove and producing small chips so their progress is very gradual.

An old timer told me that a good axe person will maintain roughly a 1:1 ratio between the width of his/her initial cuts and the thickness of the log. In other words, for a six inch log, he/she would place the initial blade strikes about six inches apart. For a less experienced axe person who does not place their blade impacts as accurately, it may be advisable to start with a higher ratio, like 1.5:1. That should give more margin for error and keep larger chips flying.

DancesWithKnives
 
just sounds like bad tequinique. And mabye it needed a bit of sharpening. my fiskars with a 23.5" handle will take down a 8" poplar no problem. I have a video here some where, Ill try to get it up one of these days.
 
Fonly said:
just sounds like bad tequinique. And mabye it needed a bit of sharpening. my fiskars with a 23.5" handle will take down a 8" poplar no problem. I have a video here some where, Ill try to get it up one of these days.
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Ok def bad technique because i was just like striking the axe down trying to cut through it like a v shape. From what I'm hearing you have to strike the axe down in such a sway is to scoop out the chips till you go through it? Whats a good value axe ? I was also thinking of getting like a ranger tomhawk for smaller 6 inch stuff, since full size axe is mighty heavy. Oh yeah are there any sites or videos that shows you how to properly chop wood?
 
Fonly said:
haha most of the vids you find are wrong, I can show you wrong technique. :D there is one vid by nuttin fancy on you tube that shows the wrong way of doing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-M78KIy19E&feature=user
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Generally i like his videos but yeah thats definitely him at his worst.
In the comments some people corrected him on the mistakes and on the details about the Gerber Fiskars. Hopefully he will do a follow up.

OT i just recently watched Nutnfancy's CS laredo video.
He raves about it but unfortunately he thinks its full tang (its not).
Actually someone here (chromechicken) posted a pic of the tang
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/chromechicken/knife.jpg
That tang does not inspire confidence!
Sad thing is because of the Nutn's recommendation many people will go out and buy one.
 
hannibal lecter spyderco said:
Ok def bad technique because i was just like striking the axe down trying to cut through it like a v shape. From what I'm hearing you have to strike the axe down in such a sway is to scoop out the chips till you go through it? Whats a good value axe ? I was also thinking of getting like a ranger tomhawk for smaller 6 inch stuff, since full size axe is mighty heavy. Oh yeah are there any sites or videos that shows you how to properly chop wood?
Click to expand...

I have a Gerber hatchet but do not use it much. I also have an estwing all steel hatchet. The best value for me (not the cheapest) is Granfors Bruks axes. Extremely well made and functional for the job (chopping). I can do a lot even with just the Wildlife hatchet, which is small enough to carry comfortably in my daypack. It FAR outperforms any chopper knives I own (Swamprat Battlerat is the best of those) and the few khuks I've tried. I don't even take a big knife with me anymore - just the wildlife hatchet and smaller fixed blades (and reliable spydie folders of course).

If I'm serious about firewood and working out of a vehicle - big stuff gets cut to length with a chainsaw. Split with an axe. The hatchet is good for splitting smaller logs too.

If you are just playing, use whatever you like playing with :). That is where the tomahawk might come in. Just my 0.02
 
hannibal lecter spyderco said:
The log was around 12 inches I did miss and hit the dirt a couple of times but maybe it gerber makes cheap axes or something because that thing chipped.
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Just a few elements:

You actually chose a pretty thick log (12 inches)
Chopping that kind of log requires quite a lot of energy, particularly if you are a beginner.
Hitting dirt does damage axes, it should always be avoided (covering ground with spare logs, twigs... might help)
AFAIK Gerber axes = Fiskars Axes which are reasonably good quality.
Gerber axes have a pretty thick bit: they work better on soft wood (birch, conifers...).
Gerber axes are quite soft they work better on soft wood (had significant rolling and some chipping on seasoned beech logs).
Hitting the log perpendicular to grain is hard on edge.
 
I normally carry a folding saw along with my GB. The hatchet makes quick work of the smaller limbs on a log and does a reasonable job of splitting. For me a good saw takes less energy to cut through a log than a hatchet. I agree that there is usually enough dead wood on the ground and with the idea of cutting smaller diameter pieces. I have never had the need to cut a standing large tree, maybe a smaller tree for a pole on occasion. That’s just my free advice and it’s worth every penny .
 
Fonly said:
haha most of the vids you find are wrong, I can show you wrong technique. :D there is one vid by nuttin fancy on you tube that shows the wrong way of doing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-M78KIy19E&feature=user
Click to expand...

For one he's using a splitting axe to buck.
For another, the notch is too narrow.
For another, in a survival situation, I can't see chopping that big a piece of wood.

hannibal lecter spyderco:
OK, you shined some light on things.
First off, the "big" Gerber/Fiskars axe is what, 26"? That's not a full-size axe. That's what's called a cruiser axe, 3/4 axe, boy's axe, or with a certain head profile, a Hudson Bay axe. It's light and packable, and that's why that size is popular for woodsbums that want to chop more wood than they can with a hatchet. A full size axe is more along the lines of 32-36" long and with a 2.5-3.5 pound head, although there are heavier axes. These aren't good for backpacking or camping, but if you want to chop some wood. . .

Next, the chipping I'll almost bet was from when you sent the axe into the dirt. Even top quality axes will chip if sent into the dirt and they hit the small pebbles and such in there.

Third, chopping is work. If you aren't used to it, it'll kick your butt. Contrary to popular belief, so will sawing. You have to practice to get the skill, and to get the strength and endurance.

Fourth, a 12" log is big. Unless you are building a cabin or cutting firewood for the house, it's bigger than what you should be going after when camping and such. You're better off with a full size axe on such a beast.

What are good axes to get? Well, the Gerber is fairly good (ok, I don't like them, but it's a personal preference thing). But to be honest, I wouldn't bother with a "good one" just yet. Our local Ace Hardware has Collins axes, everything from small hatchets to 36" behemoths. They also have Boy's axes (about the size of the "big" Gerber/Fiskars), for about $15. Youi can get 3 of them for the price of a Fiskars. They aren't the best, but they're more than good enough to practice with. I'd practice sharpening and using with cheap axes. Once you're good, you can get a good one.

With the Collins I was able to get them horrendously sharp with just a file and a coarse/fine combination stone.

While learning I'd learn with a full sized axe, with the longest handle you can get. This may seem counter intuitive, but a larger axe is safer. It does more work, so you don't become fatigued as quickly, and also with the long handle, on a miss, you'll probably bury it in the dirt (and get more time practicing sharpening) than in your leg. Our local hardware store has some pretty nice Collins axes that are 36" long, with a non-painted (for less friction) head for a whopping $24. One of those, a file and a stone should be less than $40.

For references, this is a great site: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/Fspubs/99232823/toc.htm

Also get a copy of Mors Kochanski's book "Bushcraft" a must have, IMO, for any outdoorsman. He has an entire chapter on axecraft.
 
I can't comment on the quality of gerber axes but I do know one thing - they're a knife company that has slapped their name on a whole bunch of different products from flashlights to backpacks.

If you want a quality axe I'd recommend sticking to a company that makes striking tools and not much else. Companies that make hammers, mauls, etc are going to probably also make a decent axe.

Some companies to check out are:

Wetterlings
Vaughan Manufacturing
Council Tool
Barco Industries
Snow & Nealley

Granfors Bruks if you have the money

I'm sure others have some suggestions but that's what comes to mind off the top of my head.

Right now there's a surplus website selling the Barco Kelly Woodslasher axe for incredibly cheap - just ordered one myself. Google should be able to point you in the right direction to finding it.
 
Watch the pro choppers on the Stihl lumberjack competition series if you see it on TV. Note the distance between their initial cuts and the angle at which the blade engages the log. Observe the big chips that fly off---especially from the first few cuts.

Accuracy (which comes from good form, concentration, and practice) is very important. Like hitting a baseball, you need to focus your vision hard on exactly where you want to strike. Many people don't concentrate on the specific small spot they want to hit. They simply look at the general area of their cut and just swing away at it. I've watched a lot of people hit the sides of their channel rather than the uncut wood at the bottom of it. That's mostly wasted energy that isn't helping them get through the log.

DancesWithKnives
 
I generaly carry my HI M-43 kukri as my all purpose chopper, for the weight and ability to perform multiple functions it can't be beat. I have out cut much larger axes with the kukri. However the reason I prefer it is due to the fact that it also excels in the roll of a drawknife, and campknife.

If I were to have to build another log cabin I would prefer to have a quality axe and a bucksaw, as well as the kukri for peeling and limbing. The axe is better for splitting, and in my old age I've grown to appreciate the ease with which I can crosscut with the swede saw.
 
Fonly said:
just sounds like bad tequinique. And mabye it needed a bit of sharpening. my fiskars with a 23.5" handle will take down a 8" poplar no problem. I have a video here some where, Ill try to get it up one of these days.
Click to expand...

fonly i would love to see that vid i have a 23.5 fiskars coming on the 23rd and i cant wait.
 
Just my 2 cents...

I have read a lot of posts saying that the heat treat on the Gerber/Fiskars causes the factory edge to chip. Once you sharpen it a couple times, you get into some steel with better HT and the problem goes away. I didn't see this in my Fiskars axe or hatchet, but maybe I was one of the lucky ones.

You get a lot for the money with the Fiskars, but when I reach for an ax, it is my GB.
 
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