Just joined and want to learn from those with more experience. I'm a volunteer maintainer for about 45 miles of wilderness trails in Virginia (no chainsaws allowed). Generally I clear the trails by myself using a large one-man crosscut saw for blowdowns, but Federal regulations will soon require saws crews to have a two-person minimum. Getting that second person isn't easy and I want to improve my axemanship before the rules change (A lone axeman is still allowed, probably because the Washington bureaucrats don't know what an axe is). Anyway, I encounter a lot of large, dry, barkless, deadfalls in the 20-30+ inch range -- hard, solid oaks and hickories that are tough to chop. My question to forum members: what's the best way to go after such big dead wood? I've READ how to do it, but the books always show guys chopping pine or some other fresh, moist wood. I have a couple decent Plumb and Kelly axes that have been filed, sanded and honed to a reasonable shape and will shave my arm, but I'm not looking to be a barber, just a better axeman.
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Axe craft for hardwood
- Thread starter trailtime
- Start date
Whew! Sorry. No advice here other than to sneak in a chain saw and an ATV with a winch. You're talking about a big project using an axe to cut 30+ inch diameter dried hardwood trees 
into chunks small enough for one person to move around and etc. That should get you in shape if you're not already. 
into chunks small enough for one person to move around and etc. That should get you in shape if you're not already. - Joined
- Apr 28, 2001
- Messages
- 125
Jagged said:Whew! Sorry. No advice here other than to sneak in a chain saw and an ATV with a winch. You're talking about a big project using an axe to cut 30+ inch diameter dried hardwood trees
I agree with Jagged. I remember back in the 70's, when I was young, dumb, and full of c*m, bucking-up dead dried oak with an axe for firewood. I lasted about a day; then went and bought a cross-cut saw. You must be one dedicated cowboy to want to do this.
Bill
If you are in shape for it, you can do that type of work with a correctly profiled and sharp full size axe. You'll have to work your butt off, but it'll get you there. I would recommend a Gransfors American Felling axe, or one of the larger Iltis single bit axes (if you can hand-pick one... the handles, both grain and head alignment, are not the best). If you have to go mail-order, go with the Gransfors. The Kelly axes are made from good steel, but the profile won't let you bite as deep as you need to in that seasoned hardwood. Either way, it'll be slow going and hard work.
I spent the better part of last weekend filing down the profile of my single bit axe-- that was a slow go-- so it's performance should improve some. What is the best angle of attack for dry hardwood? If 45 degrees is recommended for fresh cut wood, then I would think 50+ degrees would improve the bite on seasoned oak (again providing the bit is narrow enough not to glance off). I've used a Granfors small forest axe for limbing, but the handle is too short and the head too small for bucking large deadfalls. I thought they quit making the American forest axe.
Gransfors is still making the American Felling axe. As far as I know, they're in very short supply still in the US, but are supposed to be coming over to many stores in a large shipment this spring. They've had a hard time keeping up with demand. I use my Scandinavian Forest axe for almost everything, as I can swing it all day without getting overly tired, and it does almost as much as a full-sized axe on softwood, or fresh hardwoods, but the limiting factor is the size of the bit. Still, I would definately recommend it. But as I said, if you're up for swinging a full-sized axe all day (which you'll be doing to get through trees that size) I'd go for the felling axe.
The bit should be very thin (around 1/4") well back from the edge, but, as you said, a fairly blunt, and definately heavily convex edge should be maintained. A concave section (or "hollow grind") right behind the edge will help considerably with sticking in that dry hardwood. The angle will depend greatly on the quality of steel- another reason I'd go with the gransfors. I find that I can keep an amazingly lower angle on my gransfors than on any other axe I own... even on hardwoods... and it's still sharp at the end of the day! I know that a lot of people think they're overly expensive, but I think they're a heckuva deal for what you get. If you're going to reprofile an axe you have, take it slow, with lots of cooling breaks, and file and sharpen the edge by hand.
The bit should be very thin (around 1/4") well back from the edge, but, as you said, a fairly blunt, and definately heavily convex edge should be maintained. A concave section (or "hollow grind") right behind the edge will help considerably with sticking in that dry hardwood. The angle will depend greatly on the quality of steel- another reason I'd go with the gransfors. I find that I can keep an amazingly lower angle on my gransfors than on any other axe I own... even on hardwoods... and it's still sharp at the end of the day! I know that a lot of people think they're overly expensive, but I think they're a heckuva deal for what you get. If you're going to reprofile an axe you have, take it slow, with lots of cooling breaks, and file and sharpen the edge by hand.
Just found a couple of websites offering that axe for 140.00. I'll have to think about that for a while. I'll work down the steel on a couple of my current axes and see how they do. Novice that I am, I took both a single and a double bit into the woods today to try them out. The double bit seemed to swing and cut better than the single and just felt all around better in my hand; yet I generally see only single bit axes discussed a chopping tools. I'd never take a double with me when I'm crosscut sawing, as I need the poll to drive wedges. But if carrying just one tool, it would seem that the double has the edge (so to speak). Do you use a double bit often? Why/whynot?
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- Apr 9, 2004
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- 560
You use the FLAT of a couble bit to drive wedges! WOOD wedges that is. You should never use a the pole of an AXE(not even a splitting axe) to strike a metal wedge! Only use a Splitting Maul for that!trailtime said:
The double bit has an advantage, as you say, with both balance, and the fact that you have two bits there to profile differently. The problem with most axes is that they're improperly balanced, and the double bit, even when poorly forged, naturally overcomes this. I've used both a lot, but I always find myself using a single bit if I really need to get something done. Just personal preference, I guess. When the double came into popularity, it immediately became a favorite of the loggers, who switched to it almost exclusively for a while before the crosscut saw, then chainsaw came into the main.
Overall, I'd say go out and use a couple of decent axes a lot, and figure out which one works best for you. Just be careful with those doubles. They can be mighty dangerous.
Overall, I'd say go out and use a couple of decent axes a lot, and figure out which one works best for you. Just be careful with those doubles. They can be mighty dangerous.
norca
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Granfors double bit is what ive used in the woods and I find it ok on oak but these buggers are sharp as they should be and I allways use the blade covers when not in use as TallDog says "Just be careful"
No, I would never use a steel wedge, infact, I don't own one. I hadn't thought of using the flat of double to pound in plactic wedges though. seems a bit awkward and I couldn't take much of a swing. It's not easy to "tap" a plastic wedge into an gnarly old oak when your crosscut kerf is tight and closing.