Axe handle curves

[Takenname_7]

Lately I've been trying different things, testing so to speak things that have become the standard with handles as we know them. I didn't want to just parrot info without actually having experience on the subject.
Anyway I just wanted to post this handle shape that I'm loving and haven't seen on any axes other than maybe throwing hatchets. It's a recurve shape going the opposite direction, flowing away from the head, like a katana sword. It really seems to help my accuracy and gives a stronger bite when chopping. For me anyway. Would love to see someone else give it a go n see what they think. Who knows could just be me and the way I chop lol idk but loving it.
In pic the Kelly jersey pattern is it and I put a traditional handles boys axe next to it in comparison. Please give it a try..I'm betting you'll love it.

https://imgur.com/a/dhfkrgr

 

[garry3]

I would call that an open hang. I suspect even the boys axe is more towards open.
Open hangs would probably make sense with an axe used for splitting close to the ground for instance.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I would call that an open hang. I suspect even the boys axe is more towards open.
Open hangs would probably make sense with an axe used for splitting close to the ground for instance.

Like often seen on broad axes.

 

[Old Axeman]

I make quite a few carving/hewing hatchet hafts, up to 20", with the same shape. I never thought about making a axe haft, except for a broad axe, with this shape. It combines the qualities of a straight haft with a curved haft. I like it!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Most American axe heads balance about 1/4" inside the front of the eye. Base on that presumption, a straight line (light green) run through the lower grip point (dark green dot) and the center of gravity gives these results. I usually like my hangs a little more closed than a lot of folks, preferring the line of the heel and toe of the bit to pass through the grip point, but using the convention of a straight line from the butt of the handle to where it contacts the bit as if lying it on a flat surface gives us the red line, approximately. Effectively you see that this handle uses its concave arc to help bring the handle more "on-axis" with the center of gravity, and so it should feel very stable in your hands, with little tendency to wobble in flight or on impact.

 

[Takenname_7]

Thank y'all for comments. "Open hang". Now I have a definition for it, thnx ya. Yeah I totally forgot about broad axes when searching for photos of handles like mine, good call. 42blades sir your a bit smarter than I I must admit. lol just picture me hunched over pouring sweat dripping down as im vigorously scribbling on paper doing an algebra equation, deciphering the knowledge in your post. Lol getting my brain going first thing in the morning. Now Im getting the science and why behind it. Thank you sir. Good site y'all have here.

 

[crbnSteeladdict]

Whenever I look at Masting Axes' open hang I always wonder how they were used. I can understand ergonomics behind Broad Axe's short open hang handle. Mast Axe is still a mystery to me
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-handforged-mast-felling-ax-1-2077147427

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Thank y'all for comments. "Open hang". Now I have a definition for it, thnx ya. Yeah I totally forgot about broad axes when searching for photos of handles like mine, good call. 42blades sir your a bit smarter than I I must admit. lol just picture me hunched over pouring sweat dripping down as im vigorously scribbling on paper doing an algebra equation, deciphering the knowledge in your post. Lol getting my brain going first thing in the morning. Now Im getting the science and why behind it. Thank you sir. Good site y'all have here.

The long and the short of it is that an ideal handle will describe a line that is as aligned with the center of gravity as possible.

An unbalanced axe will cut fine in splitting or bucking, where the bit points towards the ground, but will wobble and roll in the hands when making horizontal felling cuts, and horizontal wobble will still be noticeable in the general handling of the tool. If swung with one hand only the tool sort of self-balances like how a washing machine drum will self balance, but when using a two-handed grip you're making what is basically like the axle to a wheel--the tool is being forced to rotate in the hands around the axis made by a straight line through the two grip points, and if they don't point to the center of gravity it's gonna' want to flop around, almost as if your axle attached to the edge of the wheel's rim instead of its center. Most American axes balance 1/4" inside the front of the eye, but in cases of other global styles it may be elsewhere. In the case of bit-heavy axes this means that you'll usually have to offset the neck of the handle like on an adze to get as much of the gripped length "on axis" as possible.

A trick for assessing the balance/center of gravity with most tools is to pinch it loosely and allow it to dangle. The center of gravity will always work like a plumb bob to give you a straight vertical line between the center of gravity and the suspension point. If the center of gravity can be found inside the body of the object you can balance it on a finger. But in the case of objects where the center of gravity is actually outside the body of the object, simply suspend it first from one point and see how it hangs, then change your suspension point and watch the tool pivot and realign itself. Where the plumb lines of those two points would cross ("X marks the spot") is where the center of gravity is.

This all sounds complicated in text, but is really quite simple once you know what's going on. It can be estimated visually with reasonable accuracy, and can be outright confirmed in a matter of literal seconds with actual handling of the tool.

 

[garry3]

Ideally balanced tools varies with the task. Just look at dog head hammers as an example.

In the case of an adze handle I believe the curved haft is to put the bit in line with the hands for accuracy. Much like a shorter poll on a hammer is more accurate.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Ideally balanced tools varies with the task. Just look at dog head hammers as an example.

In the case of an adze handle I believe the curved haft is to put the bit in line with the hands for accuracy. Much like a shorter poll on a hammer is more accurate.

It's worth noting that dog's head hammers are single handed and largely single-handed so balance is largely irrelevant on that point alone, but furthermore they're swung downwards where the balance doesn't matter.

In the case of adzes it both shortens the bit-to-grip-axis distance, which does improve accuracy, but also because of how they are held and swung, and having the handle on-axis eliminates the wobble that would otherwise be more prone to occurring. So it improves accuracy via both mechanisms.

 

[garry3]

It's worth noting that dog's head hammers are single handed and largely single-handed so balance is largely irrelevant on that point alone, but furthermore they're swung downwards where the balance doesn't matter.

In the case of adzes it both shortens the bit-to-grip-axis distance, which does improve accuracy, but also because of how they are held and swung, and having the handle on-axis eliminates the wobble that would otherwise be more prone to occurring. So it improves accuracy via both mechanisms.

Ballance matters in tools used with one hand. Nobody that has used them day in and day out would claim otherwise.

Dog head hammers were invented for their ballance.

Not sure why you are always trying to pick an argument with me but you are just being silly at this point.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Ballance matters in tools used with one hand. Nobody that has used them day in and day out would claim otherwise.

Dog head hammers were invented for their ballance.

Not sure why you are always trying to pick an argument with me but you are just being silly at this point.

Not "trying to pick arguments"! Just pointing out how the principle applies in that instance since you appeared to be conflating some things. The reason for the shape of a dog's head hammer is mostly a matter of clearance, ergonomics of wrist position, and presentation relative to the workpiece when struck.

As I already mentioned, single-handed tools mostly self-balance from a rotational standpoint because the grip can basically be treated as a single point under most use cases. But it does impact your wrist angulation and a few other subtle things.

You're always welcome to put me on your ignore list if you don't like what I have to say about your posts. But the things I'm typing have no antagonism behind them.

 

[garry3]

Not "trying to pick arguments"! Just pointing out how the principle applies in that instance since you appeared to be conflating some things. The reason for the shape of a dog's head hammer is mostly a matter of clearance, ergonomics of wrist position, and presentation relative to the workpiece when struck.

As I already mentioned, single-handed tools mostly self-balance from a rotational standpoint because the grip can basically be treated as a single point under most use cases. But it does impact your wrist angulation and a few other subtle things.

You're always welcome to put me on your ignore list if you don't like what I have to say about your posts. But the things I'm typing have no antagonism behind them.

I don't know what your problem is but it is no doubt petti.
I would rather not put you on ignore because you actually have some positive things to share at times. This isn't one of those times though.

The argument you are currently trying to make isn't worth my time to debate. It's silly....

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

It's the physics of the designs and how they operate, but okay. Just 'cause you think they're silly doesn't change the fact that they're true. Your language is unnecessarily hostile here and I assure you that my contention is with your assertions and not due to any personal disregard. If you can't see that then I'd actively urge you to put me on your block list, as this is not the first time you've taken things personally despite it not being the intention of any of my statements.

 

[garry3]

It's the physics of the designs and how they operate, but okay. Just 'cause you think they're silly doesn't change the fact that they're true. Your language is unnecessarily hostile here and I assure you that my contention is with your assertions and not due to any personal disregard. If you can't see that then I'd actively urge you to put me on your block list, as this is not the first time you've taken things personally despite it not being the intention of any of my statements.

I'm trying to diffuse the situation with you.

Not having much success....

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Regarding why single-handed tools self-balance it's because you're manipulating the object from a single point relative to the center of gravity and the body of the tool is free to right itself. As long as the forces are kept on the axis between the center of gravity, which is a free body, and a single control point you're geometrically dealing with a line describing the shortest distance between those points. When a second manipulation point is introduced you are now describing a plane made by those three points, instead, unless you line them up to form that single axis. When your points are in a triangular arrangement like that you've created a hinge or axel between your two hands, forcing the center of gravity to exert its forces around this new axis instead of the one that would best balance the tool.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Whenever I look at Masting Axes' open hang I always wonder how they were used. I can understand ergonomics behind Broad Axe's short open hang handle. Mast Axe is still a mystery to me
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-handforged-mast-felling-ax-1-2077147427

Could it be that the uses and purposes of so called Masting Axes have never been credibly discussed on this website nor have any competent sources been provided that I know? As far as I am concerned everything we read here on the topic consists of pure heresay, completely inadmissible and that's how I take it. This Worthopedia a case in point, mast-felling axe? What an expression of confusion, or at the very least a perpetuation of someone's confusion.

No, we must wait for some sensible basic information first before any attempt can be made at understanding its configurations. Till then, let's be honest, Mast Axe is still a mystery to all here, unless somebody is keeping secrets.

 

[garry3]

Regarding why single-handed tools self-balance it's because you're manipulating the object from a single point relative to the center of gravity and the body of the tool is free to right itself. As long as the forces are kept on the axis between the center of gravity, which is a free body, and a single control point you're geometrically dealing with a line describing the shortest distance between those points. When a second manipulation point is introduced you are now describing a plane made by those three points, instead, unless you line them up to form that single axis. When your points are in a triangular arrangement like that you've created a hinge or axel between your two hands, forcing the center of gravity to exert its forces around this new axis instead of the one that would best balance the tool.

Deled because it just isn't worth it.........

 

[Square_peg]

Ideally balanced tools varies with the task. Just look at dog head hammers as an example.

In the case of an adze handle I believe the curved haft is to put the bit in line with the hands for accuracy. Much like a shorter poll on a hammer is more accurate.

This is the basic principle at work at Hofi-style blacksmithing hammers.

 

[garry3]

This is the basic principle at work at Hofi-style blacksmithing hammers.

As well as California style framing hammers.

Dog head hammers are mostly for blacksmithing, file making ect. They are one trick pony's, made to fall straight down and strike square.

I think it's interesting that handle shape many times reflects it's intended use vs a hammer that has a more rounded haft that may be used differently like the ball pein for example.