Axe wedge goes up. Issue on my homemade handle

M

Macronaute

Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
3
Hey Guys !
I made an hatchet handle recently and I put a wooden wedge in it but it goes slowly out once I use it for real work.
I just put a wooden wedge, I don't want to put glue or metal wedge in it, I seen a lot of people succeed like that, but in my case it is not working :
20210619_173413.jpg
20210626_133738.jpg

Here below the second trial (I did not cut the wedge because it was a test → And it failled)
20210626_145732.jpg
20210626_152727.jpg


If you have any clue, or if you had the same issue, please let me know !
 
Pics aren't properly posted, but if you're experiencing the wedge backing out you probably have an issue with either the kerf not being deep enough (should usually be about 2/3 the depth of the eye), the wedge being too thin (not generating enough spreading force, so it's able to jump up out of the kerf) OR it's too THICK/has too great of a taper, which can also pinch it out of the kerf.
 
For maximum contact, the bottom of the wedge should be at least as wide as the width of the bottom of the kerf.

A rule of thumb for for the width of the wedge at the top:
Width of Wedge = Kerf Width + (2 x Flare)
Flare is the distance one side of the handle will move beyond the eye with the wedge in place.

If the moisture content of the wood (handle or wedge) is greater than equilibrium with the environment where hung and used shrinkage can occur.


Bob
 
Macronaute said:
Hey Guys !
I made an hatchet handle recently and I put a wooden wedge in it but it goes slowly out once I use it for real work.
I just put a wooden wedge, I don't want to put glue or metal wedge in it, I seen a lot of people succeed like that, but in my case it is not working :
20210619_173413.jpg
20210626_133738.jpg

Here below the second trial (I did not cut the wedge because it was a test → And it failled)
20210626_145732.jpg
20210626_152727.jpg


If you have any clue, or if you had the same issue, please let me know !
Click to expand...
What species is your wedge?
Is your handle hickory?
Early on I had a few back out and it was because the wedge was too hard and the kerf wasn't wide enough.
Now I use yellow and/or white birch or southern yellow poplar. (That's what you buy at a hardware store) I rip them all to 3/8" thick and sand them down by making each wedge custom for each hang.
You don't have to use glue or a steel step wedge!. I commend you for not doing that straight away without first trying to find out why it isn't staying properly.
I think if you combine all the advice you recieved here you'll be all set!
 
yes, make sure your wedge wood is softer than your handle wood. Tulip poplar is good because its soft but not brittle. I've also used basswood and it worked well. I imagine red maple and black walnut would also work well as they are fairly soft.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Pics aren't properly posted, but if you're experiencing the wedge backing out you probably have an issue with either the kerf not being deep enough (should usually be about 2/3 the depth of the eye), the wedge being too thin (not generating enough spreading force, so it's able to jump up out of the kerf) OR it's too THICK/has too great of a taper, which can also pinch it out of the kerf.
Click to expand...
This is all good advice. So is RJDankert's advice. Some other possible issues are a wedge that is too hard and/or too smooth. And oiling the wedge wth BLO can exacerbate these problems. A coarse grained wedge with proper geometry is best. And instead of BLO try using Swel-lock* or generically DPG & water 80:20.

And I also think there's something to using a 'soft' hardwood like poplar or cottonwood for your wedge. I think a wedge that compresses a bit will hold a little tighter. And poplar & cottonwood also have coarse grains.

Lastly there's an old lumberman's trick that locks a wedge in very securely but takes a little practice to execute. In this method you cutoff the haft 1/4" long of the axe as many of us routinely do. Then drive wedge until you think it will stop once driven 1/8" further. Let the axe sit overnight. Test the wedge in the morning to see if it has loosened. If so, tap it in a little more and then cut it off. Now use the cutoff remain or flat bar of steel to drive the wedge that last 1/8" into the haft. Your wedge will now bw buried 1/8" deep in your 1/4" proud haft. Now hit it with Swel-lock or DPG. The proud haft will swell over the top of the buried wedge locking it in permanently. I've never had one of these come loose.
 
Yup I always like to wait to trim the top until after it's had time to sit 24 hours because the wood tends to relax and you can drive it just a little bit deeper before cleaning things up and calling it done.
 
Hey, thank you for all your tips guys, it was very interesting to read !

I think I found what were the issues (yes several ones I assume, based on your answers).
Sorry for my pictures, I will try to add them again in the good way this evening !

1 - I think my wedge was too hard (Not sure about the specie, it was made from a very old table plank, I think Oak), and my handle is made from Ash (More easy to find in France than Hickory, but same properties)
2 - Maybe I lubricate too much when I added oil on my handle. (I used linseed oil but without dilute it with water or whatever)

I'm in a good way to solve the issue now, thanks a lot to you all ! :D
 
paul brown said:
every pro handle hanger I've seen always glues the wedge.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of a joke I heard once:
How do you repair an axe handle with a glued wedge?
Cut off the handle, drill it the remaining material out of the eye, and start over with a new handle.
... This time without the glue.

I'm not sure who these pros are, but it's not a matter of if the axe heads come loose... it's a matter of when.
Gluing a wedge in place isn't a commitment for longevity; it's a commitment to throwing out a serviceable axe handle.
 
EngrSorenson said:
This reminds me of a joke I heard once:
How do you repair an axe handle with a glued wedge?
Cut off the handle, drill it the remaining material out of the eye, and start over with a new handle.
... This time without the glue.

I'm not sure who these pros are, but it's not a matter of if the axe heads come loose... it's a matter of when.
Gluing a wedge in place isn't a commitment for longevity; it's a commitment to throwing out a serviceable axe handle.
Click to expand...
It's worth noting that you can use a tapered dowel wedge to tighten up a loose head even if the wedge was glued.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It's worth noting that you can use a tapered dowel wedge to tighten up a loose head even if the wedge was glued.
Click to expand...
Color me surprised. I’ve seen those on your site, but I assumed a more reasonable application. I’m surprised it would work… unless it broke the glue bond?
 
EngrSorenson said:
Color me surprised. I’ve seen those on your site, but I assumed a more reasonable application. I’m surprised it would work… unless it broke the glue bond?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean by "a more reasonable application" or "surprised it would work"? With the tapered dowel wedges you simply drill a pilot hole of the same diameter as the end of the dowel wedge, and then drive it home, expanding the wood in all directions. This means that the original wedge being glued or not is irrelevant and so a loosened handle with a glued wedge may simply be tightened rather than having to completely remove it and a new handle used.
 
Part of your problem is that head has a VERY short eye so you can't get much depth to your kerf. A modification job, I take it? That sort of an eye tends to be fine on slip-fit handles but is very short for wedge-fitting.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "a more reasonable application" or "surprised it would work"?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I responded a little fast and lazy so I see my language almost reads a little curt- work’s been using up all my brain power, I guess. If this post feels long, I’m only trying to make up for the attention I should have given my initial post :). I’m just trying to understand the mechanism! You know that I’m always interested in the knowledge you have to share.

I was trying to say that I’m surprised the dowels work that way, because I would expect there would be a mechanical way that the tongue would separate, as in the case of the typical wooden wedge. The wood deflects and then compresses when it deflects no longer. (Technically there’s always local compression at the wedge site as the wedge is driven in, but it doesn’t start jamming things snug until the wood flairs sufficiently to the eye wall)

in the case of this dowel wedge, it meets resistance in the form of “hoop strength” of the tongue, which I would expect hampers the ability of the wood to expand. I would expect far more compression locally around the dowel rather than expansion at the boarders of the axe eye. The way to eliminate the local resistance of the hoop strength in the tongue is to cut a slot through the hoop, or likewise if a crack forms through it naturally due to local stress concentration.

I was thinking perhaps the hole for the dowel wedge would be drilled at the glue joint such that it could split the joint and mechanically force the wood apart. Likewise if the dowel generated another crack in the handle by which wood was leveraged apart it would be more obvious to me how it works.

I believe you when you say it works, and certainly I don’t have to be able to validate the solution by way of analysis for me to trust you. I just think it’s surprising. If I get the energy one day I’m going to try some experiments to see how driving a dowel swells wood, because it doesn’t seem intuitive that it would make a drastic change as in the case of a standard wedge.

It’s possible, however, that the swelling the dowel wedge causes is small and only intended to make a tighter fit of an already tight-ish fit, but from what I’ve read here I’m not sure if this is what you mean.
 
It's literally the same action as a regular wedge but in both the X and Z planes, 360°, rather than just one of the two, and so the action is effectively identical to when people do a cross-wedge.
 
EngrSorenson said:
Color me surprised. I’ve seen those on your site, but I assumed a more reasonable application. I’m surprised it would work… unless it broke the glue bond?
Click to expand...
I also don't understand how a cone wedge would work in an axe with a glued wedge unless the glue joint and haft happened to crack in a favorable way.
 
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