Axis lock concerns and Ares fears

Knifeclerk · Dec 1, 2004

I have been talking with my new coworker recently, and the subject of Benchmade just keeps coming up. He doesn't like them, but then he doesn't have to. Frankly, he thinks they are designed by hillbillies. But this is not the problem.
He doubts the axis lock, saying that it locks at the softest part of the blade. He believes that it will not be as reliable as, say, a liner lock.
I have disregarded most of these things, but when looking at the Benchmade Ares in the store, certain synapses started firing.
At first I was annoyed that the axis bar does not move all the way forward. I pulled out my 710 to notice that it does not move all the way forward, but still comes pretty damn close. The Ares bar is dead in the center with actual space visable on both sides. I looked at the BM catalog, and noticed the same thing.
I began inspecting the lock up from the top. On my 710, i can see a sliver of 'tang' behind the bar when locked open. Not so on the Ares. I also recall the detant being slightly rounded, which leads to even more concern.
Is this lock okay in this knife. Should I be concerned? Should I be warning others who look at it?
-KC

ledzepp98 · Dec 1, 2004

I own both of those knives, a BM732BT and a BM710HSSR. I can tell you that while it seems like the lock sits more forward on the 710, they are actually equal. While the bar moves all the way forward in its slot on the 710, the slot on the 732 sits further back so the actual contact area of the bar on the back of the blade is equal on these two knives. Furthermore, while the travel of the bar in the slot may seem to vary, the contact area is the same on all my axis lock Benchmades (which include the 732, 710, 921, and 520).

On a side note, while I really like all the Benchmades I own (you can add an 885, 923, and 905 to the list), the 732 has actually become my favorite from an EDC standpoint... and it was one of the least expensive.

For the record, I also own and use the following if you have any questions about them:
Protech Harkins, Lone Wolf Tighe Tactical Folder, Bob Lum Seki-Cut, Kershaw Vapor II, Kershaw Blur, Colt M4-K, Kershaw 1550ST Blackout, Al Mar SERE 2000, Buck MAYO TNT, and a few other cheaper knives (and I'm patiently waiting for a Microtech CF CMTX5).

underaged! · Dec 1, 2004

Can you flip the thumb stud, for lefties on the Vapor II? It's one side only right?

agony · Dec 1, 2004

I posted a similar query on the BM forum. Looks like the Ares were designed that way from the get go. Reason being, more room for the AXIS to 'break in' with use. Makes sense to me. Remember, the AXIS has only been out for a few years, so long term durability has yet to be seen. I think Elishewitz did the right thing by making a little room for everything to fall into place so to speak. The Ares series is my fave of all the AXIS I own, including the 806,705,710,420,various griptilians,and others. I have three of them, and they are the only ones to include this 'gap' as a feature.

ledzepp98 · Dec 1, 2004

underaged! -

The thumb stud can be flipped by removing the screw and switching sides, however, the pocket clip can only mount on one side (meant for a righty). I don;t know if there was ever a lefty model (doubtful on a low cost knife). Personally, I would carry it everyday if it had a better blade steel.

underaged! · Dec 1, 2004

Ya, I was thinking about getting it for my dad. Both of us are lefties.

ledzepp98 · Dec 1, 2004

underaged! -

It is an excellnt knife in my view... great fit and finish and very comfortable to carry. The blade steel is not the best and the price reflects that. Otherwise, I don't think you can go wrong with Kershaw for a value knife. Unfortunately I can't make an accurate recommendation for a lefty.

Knifeclerk · Dec 1, 2004

agony said:
I posted a similar query on the BM forum. Looks like the Ares were designed that way from the get go. Reason being, more room for the AXIS to 'break in' with use. Makes sense to me. Remember, the AXIS has only been out for a few years, so long term durability has yet to be seen. I think Elishewitz did the right thing by making a little room for everything to fall into place so to speak. The Ares series is my fave of all the AXIS I own, including the 806,705,710,420,various griptilians,and others. I have three of them, and they are the only ones to include this 'gap' as a feature.

Thank you Agony. This was very informative.

collecter · Dec 1, 2004

The Benchmades axis lock is very good and I think if anyone that has concerns of it's reliability, should consider a fixed blade!

Collecter

thunderjacket · Dec 1, 2004

ledzepp98 said:
underaged! -

It is an excellnt knife in my view... great fit and finish and very comfortable to carry. The blade steel is not the best and the price reflects that. Otherwise, I don't think you can go wrong with Kershaw for a value knife. Unfortunately I can't make an accurate recommendation for a lefty.

The Ares is also available in M2 if you're interested.

Peter

Warbird_Scimitar · Dec 1, 2004

I just recently bought both the Doug Ritter Griptilian and Mini Griptilian. As an owner of lockbacks and linerlocks until now, I was skeptical of the AXIS lock. But as far as I can tell, the AXIS is superb. It locks "easily" compared to other designs (which "clack" into position), and the only way it can fail is if the pin shears in half, which would require a ridiculous amount of force.

I agree with Agony that the gap is intended for wear on the tang and pin.

Quy4n8 · Dec 1, 2004

Why does your friend or customer say that the axis locks on the softest part of the blade? As far as I know, the blades in BM knives are not differentially tempered; the tang is just as hard as the edge. Ask him specifically what is unreliable, I believe that the lock bar should not move all the way forward in its slots to allow for wear. I suspect this wear would take MANY openings and closings as the blade, lock bar and liners are all hardened steel. They are different steels and may wear at slightly different rates, but this is insignificant in normal uses. Short of the pivot or lock bar breaking or the liners being torn out, I don't see how the axis can fail, unless the user or something inadvertantly moves the lock bar during use.

Richard

Will P. · Dec 1, 2004

Knifeclerk, a crack addiction is a serious problem. The best advice I can give you is to get him professional help.

(Removed the rest of the post - Richard got it.)

yoda4561 · Dec 1, 2004

Not much you can do other that test, use light spinewhacks on all of the knives in question, try to close using two hands using lots of force, etc. If any of the knives feel a bit questionable use light spinetaps and progress to moderately hard ones to see if they disengage at any point. The axis lock is super durable, and assuming the bar is making good contact with the tang shouldn't even bat an eye at those tests. You should never need to use anything more than wrist strength to do them.

cmd · Dec 1, 2004

thunderjacket said:
The Ares is also available in M2 if you're interested.

Peter

Huh? Really, very interesting!

Where is it available?

Chris

Quy4n8 · Dec 1, 2004

One more additional note. If your coworker is concerned about the lock pin (I said lock bar earlier, pin would be a better description) slipping off of the tang, I wouldnt be. To keep this from slipping is a simple matter of getting the angle between the tang and the slots for the lock pin correct. Getting this correct is realatively basic engineering, and has been done many times before. Not in this sort of application, but in other types of tooling.

CMD, the M2 version is a limited edition 730 CFHS.

Richard

m_calingo · Dec 1, 2004

If I'm not mistaken the Ares M2 variant is only available as a limited edition--the 730CFHS.

These make the occasional appearance on the 'Bay. Another limited edition, the 733-01 has the S30V blade, and again makes an appearance from time to time on the eBay as well.

One variant, the 732D2 has, well...D2 steel for the blade. This is also a limited edition.

WadeF · Dec 1, 2004

Knifeclerk said:
I have been talking with my new coworker recently, and the subject of Benchmade just keeps coming up. He doesn't like them, but then he doesn't have to. Frankly, he thinks they are designed by hillbillies. But this is not the problem.
He doubts the axis lock, saying that it locks at the softest part of the blade. He believes that it will not be as reliable as, say, a liner lock.

Your coworker is a fool. He's probably just trying to sound like he knows what he's talking about to impress you, since he's new and all. He obviously has no clue about what he's talking about and you should let him know it.

Do you two work at a knife store? If so, he should be fired.

Josh Feltman · Dec 1, 2004

WadeF said:
Your coworker is a fool. He's probably just trying to sound like he knows what he's talking about to impress you, since he's new and all. He obviously has no clue about what he's talking about and you should let him know it.

Do you two work at a knife store? If so, he should be fired.

I agree. I've carried a Benchmade 942 since 2001, and I've never had any problems with the Axis lock. It's one of the best locking mechanisms out there in my opinion.

Patryn · Dec 1, 2004

m_calingo said:
If I'm not mistaken the Ares M2 variant is only available as a limited edition--the 730CFHS.

The 730CFHS was a limited edition of 500. They're rather hard to find at this point.

There was also a 732HS released, but there were only about 40 of them made.