There is a thread on BM forums regarding Axis locks failure.Any explanation?I am thinking about buying a 520 or 710HS,maybe I should wait for while?I tried the same test on my 730 and 806,they passed.Are there any tip for choosing a reliable one? Thanks.
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Axis lock failed?
- Thread starter lsstaipei
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I'm sure some AXIS lock knives have failed, but consider the fact that I've heard of maybe two or three AXIS lock failures, while I hear loads of stories of failed linerlocks.
That doesn't mean linerlocks are unreliable (a well build one isn't, anyway), it just means the AXIS lock is a very fail safe locking mechanism.
That doesn't mean linerlocks are unreliable (a well build one isn't, anyway), it just means the AXIS lock is a very fail safe locking mechanism.
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I guess you should have read the whole thread. A fellow in Germany had a 520 fail a spine whack and apparently BM wants it back to check it out. He also had an 806 fail that he had re-bladed by another knife maker. I guess he didn't get the angles right.lsstaipei said:
He also stated that his bone stock 806D2 did not fail.
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You just said it all. There is A, one, single, A, thread. How many threads have you seen regarding the axis lock? And you're going to let ONE thread dictate your future purchases? Egad. Buy it. IF, big if, you test it out and it doesn't pass your tests, you can send it into BM and they WILL fix it. They have one of the best customer service departments in the knife industry IMO.
If you never buy any product that something negative has been written about, you'll never buy another thing for the rest of your life.
If you never buy any product that something negative has been written about, you'll never buy another thing for the rest of your life.
glockman99
RIP Dann, you were a good guy.
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Dann Fassnacht
708 North L Street Apt. 2
Aberdeen, WA 98520
Please, PLEASE send all of your Axis-lock Benchmades to me if you don't trust them not to fail.
.
708 North L Street Apt. 2
Aberdeen, WA 98520
Please, PLEASE send all of your Axis-lock Benchmades to me if you don't trust them not to fail.
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There have been, literally, a few failures. It's one of the most reliable locks built.
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I always keep an eye out for lock failure trends. Maybe someone has come up with a slight twist on how to test the locks, and finds a vulnerability. It could be more subtle than that -- maybe the company has found a lower-priced supplier of springs, but those cheaper springs rust out and the lock fails. Whatever. It's worth keeping an eye out for any trend.
That said, no mechanical part is ever going to be executed perfectly every time. We're playing a probability game. Just like in the early '80s, if you bought a Toyota it didn't mean your car would never ever break down -- but the probability was much lower than if you'd bought a Chrysler. There have been so few axis lock failures that it would be pretty crazy to worry about it at this point. We'll keep our eyes open, but to my mind, there is still no more reliable lock than the axis.
Joe
That said, no mechanical part is ever going to be executed perfectly every time. We're playing a probability game. Just like in the early '80s, if you bought a Toyota it didn't mean your car would never ever break down -- but the probability was much lower than if you'd bought a Chrysler. There have been so few axis lock failures that it would be pretty crazy to worry about it at this point. We'll keep our eyes open, but to my mind, there is still no more reliable lock than the axis.
Joe
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Or, by simply putting reverse pressure on the blade (ie: from wiggling the knife back and forth trying to get it unstuck). That's how a CRKT linerlock failed and gave me 3 stitches. A gunked up lockback (or a badly made one) will fail a spine whack pretty easily (especially those $5 Spyderco knockoffs you see at Ace Hardware).WadeF said:
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I have a few BM's, my fav manufacturer... Not as many as Patryn 
I was checking on the dozen or more axis that I have and they are all smooth one hand operation and no failure. Many are in my edc rotation. Lock is tight as a ....well....Benchmade..
Of note is the thread on the Doug Ritter Grip in the review forum where at least two folk maybe three stated that they have problems with sticking or difficult to operate axis studs. One fellow thought it was the usual way to operate it from both sides of the lock. The only way he could operate it.
These are the only items I've heard of with problems.
There will, inevitably, be sample to sample failures and they should be immediately evident to the user.
Get one...you'll never regret it....then two, then three...
Tom
I was checking on the dozen or more axis that I have and they are all smooth one hand operation and no failure. Many are in my edc rotation. Lock is tight as a ....well....Benchmade..
Of note is the thread on the Doug Ritter Grip in the review forum where at least two folk maybe three stated that they have problems with sticking or difficult to operate axis studs. One fellow thought it was the usual way to operate it from both sides of the lock. The only way he could operate it.
These are the only items I've heard of with problems.
There will, inevitably, be sample to sample failures and they should be immediately evident to the user.
Get one...you'll never regret it....then two, then three...
Tom
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It is my 520 that has failed.
If i can say anything at this moment:
1. Nobody did say he or she has a failing axis too. So this knife might have a failure and i strongly believe, that BM will fix it.
2. The only difference i have noticed between the failing and the non failing is, that the axis bar is not moving as far over the ramped notch like these of the non failing.
My conclusion is to be read at the BM forum, hope it is clear, even though my english is limited.
I recieved a 550 this weekend and the lock was right. So i would never worry about buying an axis knife.
The only thing left for me is: How strong is an average spine whack?
If i can say anything at this moment:
1. Nobody did say he or she has a failing axis too. So this knife might have a failure and i strongly believe, that BM will fix it.
2. The only difference i have noticed between the failing and the non failing is, that the axis bar is not moving as far over the ramped notch like these of the non failing.
My conclusion is to be read at the BM forum, hope it is clear, even though my english is limited.
I recieved a 550 this weekend and the lock was right. So i would never worry about buying an axis knife.
The only thing left for me is: How strong is an average spine whack?
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Blop said:
When I've done it it's been much more than a mere tap, but much less than using it as a hammer. I've owned a couple of old, crummy lockbacks and one framelock that failed my test. As Wade and Planterz suggested, I'm trying to simulate something that could actually happen in the real world.
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I belong to faction, that can hardly imagine a situation in my real life, but i respect that the spine whack is a common quality test, so i expect good folders to pass them. I am thinking, that some manufacturers have a look at this test because it is used and part of reviews, so a manufacturer, who always has to argue why it is not so importante and so on, will loose customers. As you can see on this topic.
I don´t agree to use moderate power because the reason for spine whacking is in SD. I imagine that in a SD situation there is much power, so a sw has to be somehow strong.
As i have to describe it i would say: As hard as i would beat to catch a thick fly on the table or: as hard as i would knock my fingers on the table without fearing a strong pain or as i would knock at a door. That is not very much and far away from hammering.
But you can hammer an axis if you want to go that way to wear down your folders. . Those, who didn´t fail, wont fail that way.
Thanx for the input Keith.
I don´t agree to use moderate power because the reason for spine whacking is in SD. I imagine that in a SD situation there is much power, so a sw has to be somehow strong.
As i have to describe it i would say: As hard as i would beat to catch a thick fly on the table or: as hard as i would knock my fingers on the table without fearing a strong pain or as i would knock at a door. That is not very much and far away from hammering.
But you can hammer an axis if you want to go that way to wear down your folders.
. Those, who didn´t fail, wont fail that way.Thanx for the input Keith.
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I don't carry for SD so a moderate whack covers it for me (I hope ). It kills me that I've bought a few knives that don't even pass that! I think Spyderco's MBC rating criteria is objective. It would be great if we could have that kind of information on more knives. IIRC I've seen reference to sites that have lock failure tests for other knives somewhere on this forum, but I've never looked into it. I suppose, though, that a whack would still be in order to catch a defective but otherwise MBC rated knife. All that being said, my moderate whack is about what I'd use to swat a fly or knock on a door. I'm afraid that anything more would be "destructive testing."
). It kills me that I've bought a few knives that don't even pass that! I think Spyderco's MBC rating criteria is objective. It would be great if we could have that kind of information on more knives. IIRC I've seen reference to sites that have lock failure tests for other knives somewhere on this forum, but I've never looked into it. I suppose, though, that a whack would still be in order to catch a defective but otherwise MBC rated knife. All that being said, my moderate whack is about what I'd use to swat a fly or knock on a door. I'm afraid that anything more would be "destructive testing."I discovered very early after the axis lock introduction that it is very easy to experience a lock failure.
My comfort position to hold a working knife is with thumb on one side slab and forefinger on opposite side slab.
A slight slip rearward while holding the knife will unlock the axis bolt.
Stab and pull back,,,,,, the knife will easily unlock the axis bolt.
Spin whack test is only one small test of real world conditions.
My preference is the frame lock Sebenza type design.
Regards,
FK
My comfort position to hold a working knife is with thumb on one side slab and forefinger on opposite side slab.
A slight slip rearward while holding the knife will unlock the axis bolt.
Stab and pull back,,,,,, the knife will easily unlock the axis bolt.
Spin whack test is only one small test of real world conditions.
My preference is the frame lock Sebenza type design.
Regards,
FK
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FK said:
'course, the majority of framelocks are susceptible to accidental unlocking when torqued counterclockwise (if it's a righty knife). Try it yourself; imagine the blade got stuck, you're torquing it out, and perhaps you're a bit sweaty and your hand slips a little. Once your fingers slip, they tend to catch the lock. This is a reasonably well-known issue, though we hope it's enough of a corner case that it's not a big deal. Just like, for most people, pulling back on the axis lock buttons appears to be a remote corner case.
But with the axis lock, if you're really worried about hitting the buttons by accident, 10 minutes with a stone and you can grind them flush. Okay, now it's a little more difficult to close, but let's face it, the axis lock appears to be the most reliable lock out there today, and with just this small modification, can be made to be as bulletproof as I believe we can expect from any man-made lock. Although I'm beginning to think now that the compression lock seems to be as reliable as anything out there, and there's no lock buttons to worry about.
Well, I'd say it's one important test, not a small one. But strongly agree that there are plenty of other tests, including (but not limited to) torquing, white knuckling, palm pressure on blade spine, etc.
Joe
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There was a thread about accidental closing an axis not long before. I wish this thread here will not come down to this academocal discussion.
All of my axis knifes don´t seem to me as to be suposed to unlock by pulling back. The most comfort grip keeps you away from the bar while working. Thats my personal view.
Because of that thread before, i suport the demand for a "thump safety on every axis folder like it is applied on the BM 5000 auto axis. . That would end up all "might be".
I agree, that torqueing and white knuckle is also importante and that liner locks or frame locks include more sources of failure.
I will keep you informed, when Benchmade has replied as the knife is at them. Gave it to mail yesterday.
All of my axis knifes don´t seem to me as to be suposed to unlock by pulling back. The most comfort grip keeps you away from the bar while working. Thats my personal view.
Because of that thread before, i suport the demand for a "thump safety on every axis folder like it is applied on the BM 5000 auto axis.
. That would end up all "might be".I agree, that torqueing and white knuckle is also importante and that liner locks or frame locks include more sources of failure.
I will keep you informed, when Benchmade has replied as the knife is at them. Gave it to mail yesterday.