Baby's First Anvil!

D

DReicht

Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
101
I'm looking for my first anvil basically only for knife making, as of now I have no interest in blacksmithing otherwise. I'm building my own propane forge and its going to be fairly small and nothing too extravagant. I don't live in an area where I have easy access to scrap materials, metals, coal, etc, so everything I do is mostly for convenience and to save me a long drive, which is why I'm using fuel. I was looking at making my own anvil but I'm coming off 18 years of having everything made for me and I don't trust my hands to that level. I don't like that lifestyle anymore and I want to use my hands for something other than putting food in my mouth or picking up somethign from Walmart. Unfortunately I can't spend an arm and a leg on an anvil being a student and I don't have the connections to a cheaper one. Would you guys suggest I go scrap yard searching and if so, how can I tell a good anvil from a bad one? I've read a ton of those articles on the forums, but unfortunately, I don't understand many of them. I'm hoping to learn though!
 
Harbor Freight carries a 110lb cast steel anvil that will set you back about 80 bucks. They're russian made, and not bad at all for the money. I bought one and while I haven't put it to a lot of use yet I'm pretty happy with it. The face is very flat with good edges and should be good for most bladesmithing work right off the bat. The horn needs a lot of work if you want to forge small rings/twists in stuff but its not too bad for blade work as is.
This is about the cheapest you can do for a new anvil that is useable. Don't buy one thats cast iron, and I would say 100 lbs is a pretty good size to shoot for.
 
Only a rich man can afford cheap tools.

Dont waste your money on HF crap anvils. You'll actually get a much harder surface by getting a piece of scrap steel or railroad rail or the like, and have much less to worry about your hammer blows maring yoru anvil. You can get something suitable for blades for just about free quite easily. You dont need a large surface area, just a hard surface with mass. When you're starting out you'll make a lot of stray blows... and one of those HF anvils will dimple and dent like poking your finger into a tub of butter. Rail track is pretty good, as is just about anything made of hard forged steel.

If you're going to buy an anvil, save your pennies, watch craigslist, ebay, etc and get a real anvil. You'll spend more money, but you'll only buy it once, and your grandkids can inherit it and never have to buy one again.
 
That's what I figured. How can I go about looking for railroad track, should it be common at scrap yards?
 
Because there is no information in your profile,we don't know where you are,so it is hard to tell you where to look.
Large recycling scrap yards have all kinds of things that work as anvils. Check some in your area out.
RR track is easiest found at the RR maintenance yard. Call (or go in person) to the nearest RR station and ask a RR train employee (not the station workers) where the nearest maintenance yard is.There is usually a small yard at any depot. They will give you a short piece of track free if you go in person and ask the maintenance supervisor .Be sure to tell him you only need a 1 to 3 foot piece,and what you are going to do with it.
 
Justin.Mercier said:
Only a rich man can afford cheap tools.

Dont waste your money on HF crap anvils. You'll actually get a much harder surface by getting a piece of scrap steel or railroad rail or the like, and have much less to worry about your hammer blows maring yoru anvil. You can get something suitable for blades for just about free quite easily. You dont need a large surface area, just a hard surface with mass. When you're starting out you'll make a lot of stray blows... and one of those HF anvils will dimple and dent like poking your finger into a tub of butter. Rail track is pretty good, as is just about anything made of hard forged steel.

If you're going to buy an anvil, save your pennies, watch craigslist, ebay, etc and get a real anvil. You'll spend more money, but you'll only buy it once, and your grandkids can inherit it and never have to buy one again.
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't tried one the russian anvils that are cast steel. I have railroad track too, and the russian anvil is better.
 
I think I'm going to go the railroad track route, I should def. have access to that. BTW I can't find the 110 lb Harbor Freight, only a 55.

BTW I live on Long Island and there are quite a few scrap yards, I've jsut never been to one. Railroads are a big deal around here and they get regular maintenance. This weekend I'm going on a big hunt for scrap metal/materials/odds and ends so I may be surprised at what I find around here. I would expect the scrap yards to be pretty full and interesting now that I think about it.

I'm having a problem with a forge though. I was going to go the propane tank/Propane fueled route however I am the farthest thing from mechanically inclined at this point. Matt, I'm lucky you're here because I read about your plans for your prop. tank forge and I really liked it. It seems like the best suited for me of the 20+ different designs that I've read about. If you wouldn't mind, could you explain how the fuel goes from tank -> forge? Like the gas entry mechanism because of all the designs I've read, I haven't been able to figure that part out.
 
I just want to intervene before you decide to stick to the railroad track anvil route. Tempering a chunk of railroad track isn't gonna be easy, though you could weld on a piece of hardened tool steel to it. It will work as an avil, but it'll take a deal of effort, and won't have the same potential that a cast steel anvil will. If you can't find the HF cast steel anvils, for 2-500 you could have a more than decent anvil on your hands which should last you a while. I've got a friend who tried the railroad track and was not pleased with the results. He's got a little stump anvil now (it's hard, it's cheap, but it has no surface area). I'd go for the stump anvils if you're set on cheap with a hint of DIY involved. I've got a stump anvil and think that I should have dropped for a decent anvil though.

As far as the pressure gauge goes, depending on just what you're doing, I believe that it hooks directly to the bottle. I've got an oxy-acetylene regulator that hook directly up to the bottle and the hose comes off of that. You simply set the regulator to 0psi, open up the valve on the propane, and then adjust the pressure using the regulator.
 
Well I'm def keeping an eye out for anvils as I look around, but being a student I can't afford very much at all.
 
The 110 lb russian anvil from HF is far superior to a rr track. They dont list this online...you need to go (or call the store.) Do NOT buy any of the other anvils they sell. They are cast iron and are worthless.

The russian anvil is cast steel and is hardened with a good rebound. Its absolutely worth the 80 bucks. Like the previous poster mentioned..the horn is crude and not usable as is for making rings, chain etc. You can profile it with a grinder or leave it as is for knifemaking.
 
I've been reading a book about cast steel and its def. a plus, but there is no HF near me at least I have never seen one. Will their catalog be a good source? Or if I call them will they ship it?
 
Sorry to differ with you Peter, but you won't have to temper a RR track anvil. The steel used is a work hardening steel and a piece of used track is at a perfect hardness. The only thing you are dealing with is the surface shape.It is fine for drawing a taper and simple forging. The HF Russian anvils I have seen were good ,too.
Keep an eye out and leave your name and number at a few scrap yards. Anvils turn up here and there. The yard I go to has a 400 pounder that they use for general tasks of breaking things up. I can't get them to sell it....maybe someday.
Good luck on your quest.
Stacy
 
That's fine- I was posting my (my friend's I guess) experience with this. Rather limited, and second hand, but non the less I thought I'd bring it up. Ours may have been less used, because while he occasionally had chips, he had a few mushroomy areas along the edges aswell.
 
Anyone have advice on my forge?

And can the HF anvil be shipped from Rochester? Like I said I live on Long Island.
 
What about your forge?
There are many things to look at- a little more information and I'll be able to help.

I do have reccomendations for insulation, material, and burner though
+atleast 2" of kaowool or durablanket- I used two seperate blankets layered over eachother
+itc 100: this stuff is supposed to be amazing- I haven't tried it without it, but I've got two seperate layers of it, and it keeps the heat in very well. It also works like a kind of adhesive to hold things inplace. It works better than satinite according to the tests too.
+use firebrick to reduce the total volume of the forge. I put those in a few months before I had to take a break, and it helped tremendously. It keeps you from scratching your insulation with the metal, keeps flux from cooking through your insulation, allows you to position your steel anywhere you want in relation to the heat source (on a well built forge this <b>should</b> be entire interior of your forge), and as I said earlier, reduces the overall volume making the forge more effective.
+Use light/ thinner material for your forge body. I used 1/4", about 1 cubic foot and the thing weighs 70lbs
+Doors are useful
+Use a cylinder shape for the forge- either verticle or horizontal, but it's generally agreed that heating is more even that way
+Have the ability to be able to open both sides- it comes in handy for large blades
+Have the burner go in about like so O'''' where the "O" is the forge and the " '''' " is the burner- it allows for the rolling motion... or so they say- even my tube forge gets hot spots because the angle is a little off. Pay very close attention to the angle (try for about right) and height (pretty darn high) of the burner if you're doing horizontal. I lack experience in the field of verticle forgers though.
+If you are going N/A or venturi make sure to leave PLENTY of room in the rear for air to enter. I made my opening too small so we had to drill out holes at the nozzle to get more air into the mix (very effective), but it still runs much better when I plug the holes at the rear and hook it up to a hairdryer. I'd reccomend blown simply for the ease of creation and use for those less mechanically inclined.
+Use google.... lots and lots of google.
+If you're using a venturi burner look up reil1.net (I think that's it), he has some of the best burners out there
+I probably missed something
 
See the thing is I'm confused on how the burner exactly works? Is it just basically a controlled system that burns the incoming propane gas as to maintain psi?

Also how does the layering of insulation work, i.e. Forge casing, than insulation, fire bricks, and over that ITC/Satanite? I'm sort of sketchy on that.
 
DRicht,
I am going to back up and give you the advise I give to most new makers.
Purchase two or three books on knifemaking. At the top of this forum page there is a group of sticky threads with lots of info on getting started.Book lists,tools, suppliers,forges,etc. There are many sites that have tutorials on making forges,anvils,tools, and knife projects. One is www.knifehow.com .Do some searches on this forum,the topics you are trying to learn are regularly discussed.Darren Ellis at, http://forgegallery.elliscustomknifeworks.com/
has lots of supplies ,forge kits,etc. Many of the regulars on this site have web pages with lots of info on making forges and tools, - check out IG's site,for example.

It appears from your questions and confusion that you need to take a deep breath before you drown in the knife making pond. Often it is wisest to wade back into shallower water and survey the pond before trying to swim into the deep part. (OK, enough metaphors)
The amount of stuff to learn is overwhelming,at times. Getting a good basic knowledge of the subject first gives you something to work with.This applies to everything in life.
Stacy
 
I definitely do agree that I'm doing a lot of this very quickly and all the questions I'm asking I actually have read the answers before on those sites, quite a few times. I simply prefer actual interaction and verification through multiple sources because generally I've seen that one or two websites may not reveal a well kept secret of the trade.

I also have two books on order, suggested by quite a few people and am reading a general blacksmithing book. I like to throw myself into things and it helps me to learn them. I will fail on my first three knives, trust me, I know, I will probably burn myself a few times, but its how I learn and its helped me before. That doesn't mean I'm gonna take everything really relaxed and like a joke. I'm working around a 2500 degree furnace, sharp tools, and hunks of metal. Trust me I will take every precaution, keep my head straight, focus, sit down and learn but I am going to throw myself into the process.
 
DReicht said:
See the thing is I'm confused on how the burner exactly works? Is it just basically a controlled system that burns the incoming propane gas as to maintain psi?
The burner consists of several parts. You have the fuel injection system, which is a gas jet that generally uses a welding tip to supply gas at a given psi. This generally goes in the back, aligned with the very center of the pipe nipple. You have your intake, which is an opening where air is supplied. This is also normally in the back(the opening located further back than the tip of the gas jet), with the air either being forced into the burner via a fan, or being sucked into the system by the low pressure created by the gas rushing through the pipe nipple. You then generally have some sort of reducer bell at the end, which is put on backwards. it looks like this: ====C. This causes the gas to slow down as the pressure is reduced, which inturn allows for all the air and gas to mix properly, causing a good burn. Find the proper size for this reducer bell will make the difference in a venturi burner, and is still useful on a forced air burner.
I'm sure that google has plenty of pictures of burners that you can check out to see what I'm refering too.

Also how does the layering of insulation work, i.e. Forge casing, than insulation, fire bricks, and over that ITC/Satanite? I'm sort of sketchy on that.The layering of insulation isn't terribly hard once you figure out what each thing does. The shell itself is generally not overly important on most forges to the overrall value of the insulation. All you are trying to do is make a practical body to hold the insulation in place. To be practical, it needs to stand up too several hundred degrees of heat comfortably (heat will escabe to the shell of even the best forges generally). This is why metal, ceramics and clays, and refractory cement all work well as forge bodies. The next layer is the basic insulation, such as kaowool, durablanket etc. These are blankets made of ceramic fiber, which works to insulate things with both the air inbetween the fibers, and the ceramic fibers themselves. It's like a down feather blanket for your forge, except far more effective. Be sure to use a respirator or something when handling it, because it's just like fiberglass for your lungs. The next thing that is used is either satinite or itc-100. These improve the insulation value by refracting the heat around the forge. I believe that itc-100 is something like 90% effective at this, with satinite being a little less effective. This means that your forge will heat up faster (less heat aborbed into the body), and that it will run more efficently. It also serves to seal the ceramic blanket, keeping the nasty little fibers from getting to your lungs. The firebrick works simply by taking up space. Think it in terms of chocolate milk. You need to make a cup of chocolate milk, but the pitcher is full of milk, so you have to use more syrup to get it to the right flavor. By taking up space with refractory material, you are effectivly reducing the ammount of milk in the pitcher. Less energy is used to heat a smaller volume, so more energy can be used to get it hotter. It also keeps you from tearing your durablanket up, protects against flux, and works as a nice shelf for the metal in the forge.
Click to expand...

Hope this helps

edit- picture!!!!
The part with the plug goes into the back, and that is the device used to get propane into the forge in a thin, quick stream. The other opening is for air, and uses the venturi effect to suck air in as the gas goes through. You can make all sorts of different chokes to controll how rich or lean the air mixture is.

burn3.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top