Back from Canyonlands NP with tales of a dangerousmistake.

Sender

Sender

Joined
Oct 23, 2000
Messages
174
I think we over-estimated something, maybe the kids endurance, probably our own caution. We also had a mishap with the water that didn't help things much.

The Crew: Me, my wife, two sons (both under 10), my folks (late 50's), my aunt (60), and my 62 year old uncle who is 3 months post-op from a lung removal. Six days, about 45 miles of some of the greatest hiking in the west. -only saw one other group of Americans on the trails, but lots of Europeans, mainly Swiss and Germans, and British. Are we lazy as a country or what :D

The fourth day we hiked the confluence trail. This followed three days of beautiful but uneventful 6-8 mile hikes.
It's about 5.5 miles to the overlook, no water anywhere along the trail or at the end, which perches at least 1000 ft over the confluence of the Green and Colorado rivers.

We left the trailhead right at 0800. The kids started to give out about a mile before the halfway point at the confluence. We should have kept tighter on the trail, we may have noticed that they were well past their halfway point on water.

It turns out that one of the boys didn't properly secure the lid on his camelbak after refilling it from his spare bottles. My other son's had a leak on the seam. We had foolishly continued and made the confluence at 1200.

We all should have brought more water. It was 101F out that day as we found out later. We were pretty dehydrated, we had reached point where you stop sweating.

Since the boys were showing the most wear we decided to split up, and the rest of the party went on ahead to either bring water back or call for rescue if we didn't catch up in a reasonable amount of time.

The first 5.5/6 miles took four hours. The trip back took us six. We walked from shade to shade with 20 minute breaks.

Because of the way the trail winds, we could see the trailhead from about a mile away across a canyon. I had been trying to encourage my wife and sons to get to this point thinking it would be a great morale boost, and it was. The rest of the group had gotten out fine. We could see and hear them (canyon acoustics), but they couldn't see us until I flashed them with the signal mirror.

My folks had already contacted the park rangers who were now on the trail hiking toward us. Although we were feeling a little better (it was later in the day and we had some shade finally, and we remembered the bag of carrots which gave us some water) we waited for the rangers.

I felt bad that the rangers had to tote out about five gallons of water, but was glad they had. The last mile has some treacherous descents, we were mentally shot and had lost some coordination.
 
Hi Sender,

I also hope you took some salt (tablets) with you or a "hydration" mixture of salt and sugar that you could desolve in some water to compensate for lost salts through sweating.

While doing some hikes 3 years ago in the deserts in SW USA our kids got headaches real fast and water alone didn't help. They detested drinking the water/sugar/salt mixture but once they did and they experienced that it cleared their heads real fast they started to take little prepackaged sacks of sugar and salt with them from every Burger King and other fast food restaurant that we went to.

Water and rehydration salt/sugar mixture is really important to have with you.

Best Scouting wishes from Holland,

Bagheera
 
Thank you for sharing that experience with us, Sender! Sounds like you had a great hiking crew. I kept wondering about your uncle and thougt how hard it must have been for him at times, let alone the children. I'll bet at the end you all drew closer together from the experience and will have a lot to talk about even at Christmas time and years to come. I tip my hat to you for taking the family into this experience. Thanks again.
 
Bagheera; We thought the salted jerky and the fruits and nuts in the trail mix would give us enough but it probably didn't. I think we got a little complacent because of the previous three days without problems. Next time I think we'll follow your suggestion :D

FF; I meant to mention my uncle, he did great! He's a wiry little guy who knows his pace. Apparently he and my aunt walk four miles/day, and they live in Pheonix, AZ. :eek: He had cached two 1/4 liter bottles of water about 2 miles in from the trail head -not much, but smart!

It did bring us closer. My sons saw first hand how to deal with serious situations as a family.

------------------
There's always a way.
 
I have a question just begging for a answer, and since I'm here to learn, here we go...Bagheera, do you mix, say two sugar packets with one salt packet, or use another formula for the young hikers? It makes a lot of sense to mix with water rather than just pour the packets into the mouth and drink water.

I enjoyed viewing the pictures of bnss and his cute smile you filed under your www icon. Thanks, Sender...looks like a great kid and future forum poster.
 
Glad things turned out well. Don't be too critical of yourself, though, YOU DID GOOD!. All of us who go out into the wild from time to time have imperfect adventures.

IMHO - don't take salt tablets unless you have plenty of water. In fact, some of the new wilderness medical guides suggest not taking them, period, because of the tendency to irritate your stomach.

There are commercial re-hydration powders on the market. Read them carefully, because some assume you will have plenty of them on hand, and plenty of water. (e.g. pedeolyte).

The WHO has a formula for emergency rehydration, even in putrid water (but of course potable water is prefered): to a liter of water add 1 teaspoon of salt and 8 teaspoons of sugar. Shake and dissolve. Drink over a 20-30 min period. You can (I do) use a Potassium Chloride salt substitute if you prefer.

Don't think that "more salt is better". It isn't. This formula maximizes osmolality (neat word)... i.e. this gets more stuff where it needs to go than other proportions.

I have a few pre-measured (for 1 liter) envelopes of this mix, "foodsaver" sealed, in the bottom of my water bottle carrier.
 
It sounds like the perfect trip, enough excitement to get your heart going but just short of doing anyone any harm. :)

Back in my sporting days we used Gatorade to repenish sugar and salt. However standard Gatorade is really too concentrated. I now carry Gatorade in the powdered mix form and I mix it with water at half the sugested concentration. I also only drink about 1 liter of this a day (this varries depending on exertion and how I feel), the rest of the time its pure water.

I don't know how this campares to Naro's formula but it sure seems to help.
 
Naro; yeah, I guess all trips are a learning experience, It definitely beats talking about going to the movies or something mundane like that :D


Josh; The powdered Gatorade is what the rangers brought out. I've always been of the opinion that when Gatorade tastes good, that's when you need it. The human body is self-regulating that way. And with the powder, you can mix it to taste.
 
Thanks for the formula. It is easy to remember: 8-1 teaspoon ratio of sugar to salt. I like the suggestion of pre-packing and keeping the packets with the water. I do not think I could survive without Gatoraid. Next to water, it is the drink of choice for me.
 
On the subject of salt and sugar in your water as replenishment, you guys better consult the experts on this. I will tell you its a big no no in endurance sports, like Ultra marathoning in high temperatures, and ultra cycle riding and even regular bike racing and long distance running. Plain sugar is bad news but acceptable in small amounts. It does not have any potassium though or other electrolytes. Table salt is not the same as the salts in your body. Both these substances sugar and salt are very hard on your body, salt the worst. Special electrolyte drinks, as well as stuff like banannas, power bars, etc, and a ton of water are all you really need. A weak electrolyte mix in your water is plenty. Very weak gatoraide or exceed mixed weakly and there are others. The Military no longer uses salt pills or adds salt to the water. Eating is important. Endurance bars, water, fruit etc are all thats needed for a day on the move. No big meals as it sucks blood away to digest it and requires even more water. We have several noted survival instructors on this board, I would like to hear what they say, but the table salt stuff went out in the mid 70's as good practice. Table sugar is not much better, but will keep your glycogen (readily used blood sugar) levels up. When they drop too low you Bonk. Bad news is its not a complex carb hence it fuels your for a little while and then dumps you hard. Electrolyte drinks keep a slow trickle going in all the time with the water. Power bars and similar energy bars are better but taste bad often. After you finally bonk Your performance then suffers greatly, but your problem was classic dehydration from the sounds of it.
 
Hi Mike: Thank you for the reliable information. I personally have never drank a sugar/salt/water mixture while hiking or being involved in strenuous, dehydrating activities. I have witnessed others, young and old, do it and they seened to be ok, probably because they consumed an small amount and continued to drink straight water thereafter ( I'm not sure ). For myself and others, I treat dehydration as follows: Immediately Stop whatever you are doing, seek shelter out of the sun, sit or lay down and rest. Drink one to two cups of water over a 30 minute period, drinking slowly. Rest some more and then proceed back to the activity. If you have "plenty" of water, I recommend you drink often and avoid a potential dehydration situation. This may seem obvious, but a mumber of my fellow travelors waited too long to drink and got really tired. Mental attitude changed quickly for them when it did not have to otherwise. If you do not have water, well then we can quickly move into a true survival situation.

My interest in Bagheera's post was...here came a group of young people from the Netherlands all the way "down" to a s.w. desert in the USA. They took an unspecified amount of sugar/salt/water mixture and reported that their head pain went away. I assumed it was a small amount and that it worked fine for them. Kids are so resiliant. It does not take much to run them down and bring them back to "life." I find interest in the 8-1 formual from the standpoint of bedtime. Yes, I do take a small amount of sugar and salt with water( if I feel I need it) for General Hydration right before I go to bed. The body rests and the stuff has always worked well for me as I sleep. Otherwise, just pure,beautiful, wet H2O works. This is becomming a very interesting thread of real life adventure and some thoughts on a critical situation. Thanks for your post and the thoughts of everyone else.
 
Sender,
Before you try this again, and even if you don't, read Edward Abbey's, "Desert Solitaire." You'll enjoy the read, and perhaps learn a few things that will save your life.

Take care,
Bill
 
I am sure sugar, salt and water will work, but I am not sure its the BEST choice out there. Table salt is not the same mix as your body's natural salts and table sugar while it gets in quick and may be ok, is not the best type of sugar to use. A more complex yet simple carbo food or dilute sport drink mix will even out the energy supply. The product many use is a dilute mix of exceed sport drink. You cant stand too much sugar on a hot run or hike, you will barf if its too sweet. Eating some carbo food or power bars is also very very good. Makes a heck of a difference. The exceed or weak gatorade is great for the near term, until the food kicks in over say an hours time. I have run in several hot humid ultra marathon races over trails in the woods. 50-62 miles. I have seen many fall out do to getting behind the curve in drinking. You need much more water than you think you do. You should be drinking enough that slowly you are developing the urge to pee. If no urine is being formed that means your probably not getting enough water. Its much easier to stay ahead of the curve than catch up. Also being used to the clilmate is a great help. Many years it was cold right up until a week before races then a heat wave hit. This did not give people enough time to train up in hot weather. Your body does adjust itself to some extent. But I cant emphasize enough how much tougher it is to catch up than never fall behind. When you do fall behind you get very dangerously disoriented. Drinking too much as long as its water is no sin. Just water the grass a little. -good luck.
 
I respect the concerns regarding the 8-1 table sugar - salt formula. Remember though, I said this was an emergency rehydration solution. The World Health Organization (WHO) does have some experience with this problem, so I do consider them experts. I also suggested potassium chloride (salt substitute). That isn't the WHO's suggestion, it is mine: The WHO formula presupposes that you are not anywhere near a health food or gatorade store, and wouldn't therefore have a more complex sugar or salt option.

There are many high tech electrolyte boosters available, and many many many opinions about them. Use the one you find tasty!
 
Thank's Guys: I'm learning a lot here and all this information is valuable. Thanks again!!
 
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