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backlock or liner lock which is better ???
- Thread starter joebe
- Start date
- Joined
- May 6, 2001
- Messages
- 458
Depends on the knife, depends on your hands... depends on a lot of things.
I've met some folks with big, meaty hands, that press the lever in on a lockback when they grip it tightly. I've also met some people who sit and play with their linerlocks, snapping em open until the stop pin is deformed, or the blade dented just enough that the whole thing doesn't lock up so tightly anymore. Granted, it can be repaired, probably under warranty, too, but it can be a hassle.
From what I've heard, the compression lock on the vesuvius... (I think it's on the gunting too???) is supposed to be much stronger. For myself, I haven't had the time to go physically look at one, and I haven't found a very good explanation online of how it works, so I can't really say either way.
Some knives lock up with massive power... some fold under pressure. A quality lockback will normally outperform a cheaply done linerlock, and vice-versa.
For myself, if I had to choose a locking technique, I'd have to go with a quality butterfly knife. When it's open, it's open, and when it's closed, it's closed. And when open, it's held solidly in place by two pivot pins, and the tang pin, which provides a third holding point. BUT, that really only works for the good ones... cheapies have cheap, press-together pins that break. Quality, as I said for the other lock styles, is as much a determining factor as the design. Granted, spyderco doesn't have a balisong (YET... heh heh heh... can't wait), but there are others out there that might suffice until they do.
My advice... go look at the knife you want to buy, and get the feel of it. Grip the lockbacks, to see if you press em in, work the liners, to make sure it's comfortable to you.
I've met some folks with big, meaty hands, that press the lever in on a lockback when they grip it tightly. I've also met some people who sit and play with their linerlocks, snapping em open until the stop pin is deformed, or the blade dented just enough that the whole thing doesn't lock up so tightly anymore. Granted, it can be repaired, probably under warranty, too, but it can be a hassle.
From what I've heard, the compression lock on the vesuvius... (I think it's on the gunting too???) is supposed to be much stronger. For myself, I haven't had the time to go physically look at one, and I haven't found a very good explanation online of how it works, so I can't really say either way.
Some knives lock up with massive power... some fold under pressure. A quality lockback will normally outperform a cheaply done linerlock, and vice-versa.
For myself, if I had to choose a locking technique, I'd have to go with a quality butterfly knife. When it's open, it's open, and when it's closed, it's closed. And when open, it's held solidly in place by two pivot pins, and the tang pin, which provides a third holding point. BUT, that really only works for the good ones... cheapies have cheap, press-together pins that break. Quality, as I said for the other lock styles, is as much a determining factor as the design. Granted, spyderco doesn't have a balisong (YET... heh heh heh... can't wait), but there are others out there that might suffice until they do.
My advice... go look at the knife you want to buy, and get the feel of it. Grip the lockbacks, to see if you press em in, work the liners, to make sure it's comfortable to you.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 1999
- Messages
- 383
I've seen and owned some lockbacks that I could not envision ever failing: (The Chinook and SOG Tomcat come to mind...) The linerlock on my Starmate is also perfect and I've never felt it loosen or give during use. I would imagine that the Military is made to a similar standard. (My Cricket is another story: locks up tight, but I know that I could make it fail without trying too hard.) For linerlocks I prefer full dual liners (MT LCC!) as opposed to G-10 with a single (nested) liner, but that's just me. I do not believe that there is that much of a strength difference, more of a feel thing. (I like my folders stout.)
I've always liked the Police, and was tempted to purchase a G-10 one at a marked up Canadian retail price last night since they are going going... gone soon. Couldn't decide: plain vs. serrated, plus the fact the steel is ATS-55 :barf:. Not worth the $210 CDN + tax that I would have had to fork out. Nice though.
PM
I've always liked the Police, and was tempted to purchase a G-10 one at a marked up Canadian retail price last night since they are going going... gone soon. Couldn't decide: plain vs. serrated, plus the fact the steel is ATS-55 :barf:. Not worth the $210 CDN + tax that I would have had to fork out. Nice though.
PM
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2001
- Messages
- 3,415
they both have thier advantages.
Liner locks when done well are great. They are smoother (and for the most part) faster to open/close. However some liner locks can be closed too easily by either twisting or simply gripping wrong.
lockbacks are pretty hard to screw up. They are stong, and reliable... yet they too can be closed by gripping wrong.
I have 4 lockback, 2 linerlock spydies, and not a problem on the 5 I got new. the Wegner jr is a bit loose, and I plan to send it in as soon as I can.
Liner locks when done well are great. They are smoother (and for the most part) faster to open/close. However some liner locks can be closed too easily by either twisting or simply gripping wrong.
lockbacks are pretty hard to screw up. They are stong, and reliable... yet they too can be closed by gripping wrong.
I have 4 lockback, 2 linerlock spydies, and not a problem on the 5 I got new. the Wegner jr is a bit loose, and I plan to send it in as soon as I can.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned frame locks yet. From what I've seen a frame lock will outperform any device yet mentioned, everything else being equal. For one to fail the knife would have to virtually break in half down the spine or accross the handle. Odds are the pivot pin would give first. If you are really committed to a strong lock that might be the way to go. It just occured to me, does Spyderco make any frame locks?
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2001
- Messages
- 18,423
After reading this thread, last night I tested several of my linerlocks by hitting the back of the blade, first on the berber carpeted floor ogf my house, then on a metal box covered with a towel to prevent scratching. I hit them VERY hard, and the results:
Not one single CRKT product failed the test.
My Buck Odessey failed EVERY time.
So I quess alot has to do with who made the knife.
Not one single CRKT product failed the test.
My Buck Odessey failed EVERY time.
So I quess alot has to do with who made the knife.
The individual knife and its design can determine which lock is "better." Any well-made lock that is *reliable* will work, and IMO reliability is more important that pure strength. One of my Emerson linerlocks will begin to creep back over to the left if I press the back of the blade with moderate pressure. (IMO it has a lot more to do with the fact that the blade tang at the lock/tang mating surface is ground very steeply and is not concave). I have 2 other similar Emerson linerlocks with no such problem.
On the other hand, I've owned a cheapie old Taiwan brass-handled Buck 110-shaped lockback that will close as easily as any slipjoint because the locking notch was soft and is now nearly flat and smooth, so the locking lever cannot hold it open with pressure on the back of the blade.
I have not had any experience to give me reason to feel Spyderco's lockbacks, used reasonably, will ever fail. ANY lock will fail if you over-depend on it and not use the knife in a way that takes into account that it does fold. Probably the strongest blade lock I've seen is the Chris Reeve Sebenza's framelock, but people have used lockbacks for decades. Keep the lock notch clean, make sure you fully press down the locking bar before you close the knife (to prevent wearing/rounding off the well of the lock) and a quality lockback should handle most folder needs quite well.
Jim
On the other hand, I've owned a cheapie old Taiwan brass-handled Buck 110-shaped lockback that will close as easily as any slipjoint because the locking notch was soft and is now nearly flat and smooth, so the locking lever cannot hold it open with pressure on the back of the blade.
I have not had any experience to give me reason to feel Spyderco's lockbacks, used reasonably, will ever fail. ANY lock will fail if you over-depend on it and not use the knife in a way that takes into account that it does fold. Probably the strongest blade lock I've seen is the Chris Reeve Sebenza's framelock, but people have used lockbacks for decades. Keep the lock notch clean, make sure you fully press down the locking bar before you close the knife (to prevent wearing/rounding off the well of the lock) and a quality lockback should handle most folder needs quite well.
Jim