Backpacking Folder Backup to Fixed Blade

SALTY · May 13, 2001

Just curious as to what you guys are thinking. Here's the scenario: BACKPACKING, 10 days, at altitude; weight is a factor.

Normally, when afield either camping or otherwise

I have a fixed blade on my pack/straps/gear, a Leatherman Supertool on me or my gear, a SAK Rucksack in my pocket and a folder. The folder will vary depending on the mission and intended uses, but the Seb, the SERE2K, the Wegner or the old Endura all claw and fuss with eachother to see who gets to go out and play.

Well, just found out I'll be doing 10 days, 6-7000 feet MSL and hot/dry. Going external frame here and want to keep weight down. Normally I just bring everything I think I'll need and just deal with the weight.

So,
Fixed: Shadow IV or Busse (BA or NO)
SAK : Rucksack (no weight, great knife)
Supertool: Supertool
Folder: Any of the above; The new Military I just got (lightweight) or; just forget about the folder (even lighter

).

The folder usually just gets used for food as I may find myself wanting for clothes, food, ammo or directions, but I'm usually good and bladed-up.

Just thought I'd thorw this out for flame fodder.

not2sharp · May 13, 2001

Nimrod,

You lucky dog, 10 days in the sticks sounds really good.

It looks like you have alot of good choices. Unless, you are going solo, you would probably want to start with a detailed panning session with your buddy(s). You can share much of the common gear and drop your weight by 20-30%.

For knife choices I always preferred to have a fixed blade/SAK/Locking folder combination. Check to make sure your supertool is really necessary. I usually keep one of these in my mountain bike, but, the SAK is much lighter, and I would check my kit to determine whether I had any device that would actually require something other than the SAK to repair.

Unless, you have a really low riding sheath with leg straps, it is hard to wear a fixed blade on your belt when you strap on a backpack. My camp knife usually goes on, or in, my pack, while my folders (SAK and locking folder), ride in my pockets.

Have fun, take pictures, and let us know how your knives did.

N2S

mtnbkr · May 13, 2001

Since you have a fixed blade, a SAK, and the Supertool, I'd forget about the folder. That's three knives already. What possible task couldn't be handled by the other three that could be handled by the tac folder?

Chris

Brian_Turner · May 13, 2001

I go with my Wegner fixed, inverted on my left pack strap; Wegner combo-edge folder in my front pocket; and Leatherman Wave on my belt.

The SAK and Leatherman are kind of redundant. Also, I like a locking blade better than a slipjoint, and the combo edge's serrations are good for going through fibrous stuff, like rope and green branches.

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"My knife is bigger than yours. You suck." - Lewis Black

HJK · May 13, 2001

I usuallt take take four, but I only really have use for three. A large or medium sized fixed[ a Busse NO or SH II], a smaller fixed [usually a neck or PFD-lashed, recently a Blackwood neck and soon a Blackwood PFD], a Swiss Army[ that's my multitool] and a folder. I used to choose mt folder based on the trip, like ocean kayaking, whitewater canoeing, camping, hiking etc, but now I select it based on other criteria. I rarely use the folder except to carry when I am travelling to and from my destination and stopped over in towns like Iqaluit, Resolute, Yellowknife, Puerto Varas, , etc.
I love folders, but I prefer fixed blades for hard use.

ChuteTheMall · May 13, 2001

Because weight is a big factor, carry the Endura in your pocket always. The heavy gear goes in the pack, or stays at home, but the survival gear (Endura) must be light or it will be left somewhere else. A Delica would be good enough, smaller and lighter, but still likely to be your most used blade.

A neck sheath for the Endura means you don't need pockets.

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ChuteTheMallGawdSortaMount

matthew rapaport · May 13, 2001

You know I love my big knives as much as the rest of you, but when its my legs that have to carry the weight (i.e., I'm not on horseback or have a pack train to carry most of the real weight), I leave the big choppers at home in favor of a small saw. Even the wood saw on a SAK will get me through everything I would otherwise have to chop. My largest fixed blade will be just large enough (5") to be able to be pounded through wood using a log as mallet so I can split firewood (and I know I can split even 6" diameter logs with a 5" knife if I do it in small chords). This could be something like my Livesay Air Assault.

So I have the SAK for the tools and the small survival knife for wood splitting. That leaves room, if I really want to load up on knives, for a folder like the Spyderco Endura (good choice) or a small light fixed blade like my new Dozier K-1. I think the delica is too small for this, the Seb (large one anyway), too heavy, but there are lots of small blades that would serve well here from high end customs to the lowely Swedge II with its cheap, albeit light, plastic handles.

rdangerer · May 13, 2001

Spyderco Starmate & Military are what came to mind, as my perception is that they are light given their blade size and potential for utility:

1. both lightweight since they have very minimal handles other than G10 (no full liners), with the inletted scale containing abbreviated liner lock.

2. both are sizeable folders (3.75" and 4") so you are not so redundant with the smallish SAK main blade or the smallish multitool blade

Having said all that, here is what the digital postal scale has to say about some of my folders... some surprising results, the Wegner feels heavy in my hand:

Military: 3.9 oz
Starmate: 3.9 oz
AFCK 800: 4.0 oz
Wegner: 4.9 oz
Wegner Jr: 2.8 oz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Light stuff:

Spyderco Jess Horn: 2.1 oz
Terzuola mini Starfighter 3": 2.2 oz
Mini SOCOM: 2.3 oz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Heavy Stuff:

Spyderco Bob Lum Tanto, metal handle: 5.3 oz
MT LCC MA: 5.7 oz
Bigass Kit Carson Model 16, 4.25" Stellite: 5.9 oz
Bigass Kit Carson Model 4, 4" 420V drop point: 6.1 oz

If you are truly counting ounces, skip the folder and lose 3 lbs of body fat before you go. If not, the Wegner, and with nearly equal ease, the Starmate, could cleanly skin out small game to deer sized game to fishies if you needed to do so. (he11, so could the SAK).

[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 05-13-2001).]

Climber · May 14, 2001

Nimrod, The Mighty Hunter:
(How can you go into a forest without a Busse? Tsk, tsk.)
Recommendations:
SAK: Don't leave home without it! Saw-blade on that Rucksack is worth it all.
Folder: Old Endura; doesn't take much room: & it's there when you need it.
Supertool: leave it home: you're backpacking now! No need for the hardware store there.
Fixed: Challenged here with items you listed: you mentioned "ammo" later in your first post, so i'll conclude that you are "firearmed;" So you probably don't need the knives for weaponry. The Natural Outlaw chops, but if you saw with the SAK or mallet/pound the Badger Attack spine to split wood, you save a bit of weight compared to the Outlaw, & probably won't lose much utility for it.
So, Badger Attack for fixed.
That's 3 knives: small, medium & "large" for backpacking.
if you REALLY want to "rough it" & save on weight, take only your SAK & CR Shadow IV; stuff all necessaries into the hollow handle & learn to survive with less...
(Peanut butter spreads just as well with a 7" blade or a 3" ... Fish & Game skins well with either one that's sharp & comfortable;
It's not the size, it's how you handle your equipment, always remember that, & you'll go far.

)
{ So why don't you just take your ~lite-wate~ Talonite, (along w/ Rucksack)? it can do everything except chop/saw? }
Yours in Lite-wate Nuclear Utility,

------------------
Clif

"Percival... I never knew how empty was my soul until it was filled."
Arthur the King upon sipping from the Grail.

Bronco · May 14, 2001

Nimrod,
Are open wood fires allowed in the area you will be hiking, or will you be limited to using your lightweight camp stove? If open fires are not allowed (and therefore you won't be doing a ton of chopping), you may want to consider something from Mission's Beta titanium lineup to satisfy your fixed blade requirement. These blades are very strong, totally impervious to the elements, and weigh not much more than several of the folders that have been discussed in this post. I mention this only because, as you've acknowledged, weight saving is a serious consideration on extended backpacking trips.

The Spyderco Wayne Goddard lightweight is also worth a look in your search for a not too heavy folder.

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Semper Fi

-Bill

DANGELO · May 14, 2001

I rek'mnd any of the Spydies in a NECK rig, as so that they will remain on your person ALWAYS!!!

Neck knives are great, and a folding one offers TWICE HE KNIFE for the same size!

Steve in NYC

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What we do today in life...echoes in eternity...
Every man dies...not every man lives...

The General · May 14, 2001

I would use the Military or a Starmate myself. The Starmate seems to have a stronger tip and thicker profile, so I think this would be the tougher of the two. I always carry the folowing.

1. Large fixed blade 7-10"
2. Gerber Sport Axe
3. M2 Nimravious 4.5" fixed blade
4. Leatherman Super Tool
5. SAK Ranger and Adventurer
6. Quality folder plain edge such as Military, Starmate,BM 710 M2, BM 750 etc.
7. Fully serrated Endura 98.

I use the Nimravious for most light work, the folders are not REALLY required, but are useful when you are walking about and a fixed blade might cause a scene. The Leatherman is super useful as is the axe. The larger fixed blade is a bit OTT, but...

Hope it helps!

BTW, I also carry a DMT duo folder sharpener in course and fine! Just in case...

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!

Erik W · May 14, 2001

Where concerns about weight are genuine, make due with just the SAk or the Leatherman.

Serious mountaineers manage, I imagine the rest of us could too.

That said, if you must carry another, pick one. More than that is... redundant. Not to mention heavy, which is why you're asking to begin with, right?

not2sharp · May 14, 2001

Quote:
====================================
I always carry the folowing.
1. Large fixed blade 7-10"
2. Gerber Sport Axe
3. M2 Nimravious 4.5" fixed blade
4. Leatherman Super Tool
5. SAK Ranger and Adventurer
6. Quality folder plain edge such as Military, Starmate,BM 710 M2, BM 750 etc.
7. Fully serrated Endura 98.
====================================

Wow!

And, that just the bladeware. If I carried that much stuff while backpacking I would need to take along a chiropractor.

Kumdo · May 14, 2001

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I like to carry a BIG bowie (12" blade) with me when I backpack. Of course I rarely go more than two days, 10-15 miles a day. I tuck the bowie in the front of the waist belt. You'd think that would be a very unpleasant way to carry with a big pack, but it's hardly noticeble. I just got back from a big trip, and I used the HECK out of that bowie, as there were a lot of felled trees, but hardly any small stuff for fires (big pine forest). I chopped lots of wood and made lots of kindling. Great fun!

Here's the bowie I bring with me:

I also, like always, had my LCC clipped to my front pocket. Lots of people think it's too big/heavy for EDC, but I don't get it. When it's clipped to my pocket, I can't tell it's there.

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John Gonzalez
Exclusive Dealer
Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works

Paul Work · May 15, 2001

It would be very hard, if not impossible, to beat the Sebenza.

Paul

OwenM · May 15, 2001

Cutting weight, I'd ditch the the SAK or Leatherman, one or the other, and take a Camillus Talon in place of a folder (they're great).

If I had to pick a folder, I'd go with Paul on the Sebenza, though the AFCK has always been my favorite folder for camping in the past (Sebenza really does ruin you, though).

My bladeware next time out:
Busse NO
Camillus Talon (154CM)
..unless something else comes along that I like better

CD Fleischer · May 15, 2001

I think I might just consider the SAK the folder and go with that.

Otherwise, I would take a Spydie FRN or other zytel-handled folder. They weigh next to nothing. My choice would be an Endura or a Wayne Goddard. OR save a little weight and take a Delica or Calypso JR. Ltwt.

I would not give up either the SAK or the Leatherman. The non-knife tools in there are important, and redundancy is important.

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Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847

SALTY · May 15, 2001

Bronco, Fires are OK and I would like the Fb to be as a much of a chopper as possible without paying for it too much in weight and/or bulk.

As to the size of the FB, how it looks, PC-ness and making a scene are non-issues!

Climber, Though I like my CRK One Piece range knives, I'm thinking about going Busse here; Natural Outlaw getting serious consideration. This will not be a hunting trip (of any kind

) so likely not to have a firearm or ammo. This is not to say that I would rule out a plastic flare gun, but firearms will not be on board. BTW, really like that Talon.

General, with a Busse or similar tough FB, I wasn't thinking about putting the folder (if a folder is even brought) through anything that would even make it work up a sweat, let alone stress the tip. With a Busse (or similar) and the Rucksak, I'm debating the need for the folder.

As to the Supertool: Yes the saw is redundant with the Rucksack and yes the blade component is easily outclassed with most knives, but there are few places I go with a Leatherman. Pack frames sometimes need jury-rigging; there are hot pots to be handled and soemtimes wire to be cut, bent, etcetera. The Spertool may give way (weight) to the Wave or PST, but I can't see venturing or adventuring with a Leatherman.

Now that I've boxed myself into a Leatherman and a FB, I am just wondering if the extra 4+/- ounces of Rucksak or Endura are really going to matter. Absent a loss or failure, I could see myself never using the folder, however.

Water, knives and a ready means to get a fire going are prioirities. Just about everything else leans more towards the luxury options department.

The General · May 16, 2001

Nimrod! Good points, however I still think a folder is needed, if worst comes to worst and you break your fixed blade or loose it in an accident or aliens from dimension-x take it or a wolf decides he needs a knife to break that bear trap or...

Its a good backup and not THAT heavy!

With regards to the Super tool and the Wave, I have both and have to say I gave the Wave to my dad for x-mas. The Super tool is a better and stronger tool IMHO. It is not as fancey and tactical but when you are eating worms ans ****ting in the woods I know I would 110% prefer a Super tool. Fact is, if I had to have only one knife it would be my first choice.

If I had to cut a camping trip down to 3 things, it would be.

1. Tough fixed blade knife 7-15"
2. Nimravious in M2
3. LM ST

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!