Bader vs. Hardcore vs. Beaumont vs. Wilton

Peter Atwood

Peter Atwood

Joined
Oct 26, 2000
Messages
2,468
I'm saving up to buy a 2x72 grinder this fall. I'm thinking variable speed with at least 1 1/2 horse motor. I've read about various pros and cons of all the above machines but I can't decide for sure which one will be the best choice for me. I need a platen for flat grinding, a small wheel for the little spaces and either an 8 inch or 10 inch contact wheel. I want to do it right and not skimp. What do you all recommend and why?
 
WHATEVER YOU DO, GET VARIABLE SPEED

I have a Hard Core. It is extremely smooth, smoothest on the market.
Tracking is unsurpassed. I may get a second one someday because...

- It is a royal PAIN in the behind to change from a contact wheel to the flat platen assembly. Granted, it ONLY takes 5 minutes but you can't be swapping out setups all day. This is not "that" big of a deal for me since I mostly flat grind but on the occasion when I have had to hollow grind a blade it was. With a 10 inch contact wheel, it is necessary to have a 6 inch idler wheel. When changing over to the flat platen assy, an 8 inch idler wheel is required. IF you have an 8 inch contact wheel, the 8 inch idler accommodates both it and the flat platen assy.

- One other aspect is that the grinding belt is driven from the contact wheel. When you change contact wheel sizes, you also change the belt speed as well. Yes, I do have variable speed but the maximum speed does change. The belt speed when compared to a 10 inch contact wheel and the 4 inch wheel used as a drive for the flat platen is drastic.

My recommendation -
If you are going to have just one grinder, get a Bader BIII. Just make sure it is the right height on your bench.

By the way, Don't forget to look at Rob Frink's grinder. I have heard nothing but good things about the grinder and Rob.

C Wilkins
 
I am a newbie that made my own grinder and the best thing I did was a variable speed on it. It's really easy to change from an 8" contact to the platen, or a small wheel by loosening one cap screw and changing component. I like to make as much of my own equip as possible but like I say the best thing I did was the variable speed!
 
Several years ago when I was trying to learn to grind (still learning, I'm just a hobbyist) on my single speed Burr-King 960 (predecessor of the Hardcore, sort of) I called Bob Engnath for some tips. He didn't know me from Adam, but never-the-less took the time to help a stranger over the phone. The first thing he said--"slow it down". I eventually sent away for a variable speed motor so I could "slow it down". It made all the difference in the world to my learning curve, not to mention the other benefits.
The Burr-King (very similar to the Hardcore) is a quality machine, though I too wish set-up change was a little less involved. Users say nice things about all the others too. If I were to buy another right now, I'd listen to what our Moderator is saying about Rob Frink's grinder. I believe it varies speed with a pulley set-up, not a DC "knob" set-up. Whether or not this would be best for a newer operator over, say the Bader, which I believe is infinitely variable, I'm not certain.
 
Originally posted by RARanney
...If I were to buy another right now, I'd listen to what our Moderator is saying about Rob Frink's grinder. I believe it varies speed with a pulley set-up, not a DC "knob" set-up. Whether or not this would be best for a newer operator over, say the Bader, which I believe is infinitely variable, I'm not certain.
Click to expand...

There's nothing that says you can't put a variable speed motor on one of Rob's grinders. That would definitely be the way to go IMHO.

C Wilkins
 
I own a BII and a BIII. The BIII is definitely the way to go. I made the mistake of buying them with 2 h.p. fixed speed motors. I am now in the process of changing them over to V.S. I know that when I slow them down with the different size drive pullies, my grinding gets better. The BIII is very easy to use and easy to change from flat to hollow grind. I have one set up each way so I don't worry about changeover. The people at Bader are very helpful and great guys to do business with. But definitely get the VARIABLE SPEED.
 
OK, I was planning on getting the variable speed anyway and you guys are all confirming it, but what is it specifically that it does for you? I'm sure you're going to say it gives you more control, but how does it do that?

I had thought about the Burr King but my understanding was that only used old machines are now available and they are scarce. NObody is slugging for Wilton? I thought they were supposed to be a great machine?

Which is probably more versatile...8 or 10 inch contact wheel? I hear what CL says and would probably go 8 inch on the Hardcore so that I wouldn't have to worry about the additional pulley changes. But what about on the other machines?

I'd really like to hear a little plug from Rob Frink. I've looked at his site and his machines look really nice. How do they compare with set up and swap times? Also, is he willing to provide a motor? I don't get why some of these companies don't get into supplying the motor as well.
 
I have one Of Rob Frinks grinders,I have never used any of the other big name grinders so I can't compare Robs grinder to any others.What I can say is that Robs machine is built like a tank,tracks great,runs smooth,and change out from platen to contact wheel takes all of a minute,even less if you get an extra tooling bar.I put a 1.5 horse v.s. motor on it and I am amazed at how much easier it is to work with compared to what I had been using.Variable speed makes all the difference in the world.Oh,and Rob is a great guy to do business with,he stands behind what he sells.
 
Peter, the benifit of V/S is that generaly the finer the belt the slower the speed to get maximum cut from the adbrasive. one thing i would check is the abilitie of the machine to run small wheels. with the harecore i can run 1/2" up to 2" at least i know the bader also can do this. i dont do any hollow grinding now i like flats and convex. so change out is a non issue. i may buy a 14"contact wheel and ether get one of rob's or modifty my coote to take it and just leave it that way. i know i am rambaling peter i just wanted to see there's a few ways to go!
 
Peter,
I'm a fan of the Wilton. I have a V/S one that I have used for 16 years. I also have a BurrKing V/S but mostly hollow grind on it.
I use the Wilton for everything else. I have every size wheel from 1/2" to 10" and when I need that special size grind, the Wilton does it.
If I had to choose only one grinder, it'd be a Wilton Square Wheel.
I've not replaced a part on it in all that time, except for converting it to V/S, and it still tracks like a dream:)
 
My understanding is that Burr-King has been out of the grinder business for several years now. The Hardcore appears to be based on the Burr-King, and looks to be as well made (to make a long story short). There is, or at least was, even a disk grinding attachment that fitted to the side of the Hardcore, although there are a number of other ways to get a disk grinder.
 
Ive used a burr-king 960 single speed since 1992. I like it alot but often wish it had VS. It hogs metal fast and profiles like a dream. I dread changing to the small wheel attachment so Im making a small wheel grinder. It will be small and use 1"x42" belts. For hollow grinding I made a VS 1hp. 2x72 with a burr king tracking system. It has a 14" wheel. I had the wheel turned and new rubber put on it at Steven Bader Co. Not that I have needed it yet but my controler even has reverse. I have about $800 dollars into it. The advantage I see with the VS is there is very little hand sanding. It can be turned down so slow that a nice satin finish can be acheived. The 14" wheel is for when I dont know if I want a hollow or a flat grind.
 
I will agree with Kit,I have a square wheel w/ v speed and use it for everything. Thanks Robert Washburn ABS Journeyman Smith
 
Like Kit, I'm a fan of the square wheel. At least the square wheels' that Kit and I have. My machine is just a couple of years newer than Kit's, but after having worked on a brand new model last spring, I'm thinking about the Bader III. The newer sqaure wheels are kinda cheaply made compared to the older models. What I mean is the componets are much lighter gauge steel, and the machine as a whole is not nearly as "Stiff" and heavy, as the oder ones. I just flat do not like 2 wheeled type grinders. (burr-king/hardcore) Like most have mentioned, changeover is a pain, and due to the two wheel design, it is very limited on operations. Guess I've been spoiled all these years with the quick and easy changeover of the square wheel, and all the different operations I can do, without ever changing anything.
If it's gona be a new grinder, I say Bader, but if you can find an older square wheel, I'd take that hands down!
 
I found one that tops them all it is made in michigan
by log cabin forge it is heavy duty and is made well
it come with a square wheel and platen, it is 150 lbs
and it comes with a V/S speed motor for 900 it is
a great machine and I don't think there is many out there that
can beat it if you wouldlike more info drop me a line at
house-house@mindspring.com
I will give you info how to get abhold of stan:D
 
You will LOVE the JL grinder!! I have one vertical and one horizontal.. Still have the variable Wilton, but after using the JL I like it MUCH more... Its so easy to change setup with no tools, and is VERY versatile.. This ginder was designed from the ground up to make knives... K&G sells them and you can also buy them direct from John...
Any of the grinders mentioned will serve very well, but in my humble opin. the JL is awesome for me...

Take Care
Trace Rinaldi
www.thrblades.com
 
BIII 2hp VS, only way to go!

Commerade Chang can confirm that I can fully change setups in about 20-30 seconds. And most of that time is reaching for the other arm. The only tool needed is a hex key to change from platen to small wheel. And that is kept sitting on the control in easy reach. Never have any tracking problems.

With the new adapter from HardCore I can use their small contact wheels (I got the first one ever sold:D). This allows me to change small wheels in three to four seconds.

I use a 10" contact wheel.
 
Well, I'll chime in on the BIII. Got mine about 6 months ago and it's changed everything. The VS allows you to slow the belt enough it doesn't torque the work out of alignment with the platen or wheel. I'm able to keep the work lined up the way I need it. Previously this was where most of my effort grinding came in; now I can really feel the flats or hollows. A second benefit is you're less likely to create unwanted heat working bone or stag at the slower speeds.

I think mine got a bit of a rough ride from UPS, a couple of screws were broken, but as I've replaced them everything continues to work well. Smooth as glass. I had a 2" wheel mounted as the bottom roller on my flat platen, and it's been great to have. Change over from 10" to platen is a matter of a few seconds. My only complaint is that the platen and wheel do not track the same, so I have to remember to adjust the tracking when I go to the platen, or I chew up the edge of my belt in a hurry! 

Change over is so easy I don't really feel the need (just yet :) ) to get another machine. But if I were shopping I'd look at Rob's too.

One last point -- I'd opt for 2 hp over 1.5. I can still stall the 1.5 horse if I try too hard!

Dave
 
Peter
I own a Burr King (smooth fantastic), Wilton (tough Workhorse) and Rob Frinks grinder.
Had a bader (sold it)
If I had just one to choose it would be Robs Frinks.

Reasons are
It is built better than any grinder I have seen to date.
It smoother and quiter than the burr king.
It has quick change wheels, and flat platen that change in 5 seconds. :D :D
I have 4 wheels for mine: 1.5 inch 4 inch 8 inch and 14 inch. Also a flat platen that will tilt to 45 degrees , another nice option.
The 14 and 8 inch on my grinder are built with 1 inch bearing shafts. This is very solid
The tracking is great.
It will accept a 14 inch wheel with NO modifcations at all.:D
Ill say it again It is build better than any Knife style grinder I have seen.
Rob also makes a quick change disk arrangement for this grinder.

Get the vary speed.
 
I have my answer, and I wasn't even asking the question, thanks D.R.
 
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