Bainite treatment

T

TLM

Joined
Jan 11, 2000
Messages
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I went trough the archives on 'bainite' and there were several comments "gives you very strong blade but not quite the edge holding of martensite". Does anyone have any data on that edge holding thing. Theoretically the strength could be a bit higher (depending on material) and a lot less inbuilt thermal stresses but how about the edge?

Tapio Manner
 
I can only speak for bainite in 52100. I have only tested one bainite blade, it cut an average of 18 cuts, the 52100 multiple quench cut over 250. Done right with the right steel, you can't beat martensite for cut, the toughness can be easily more than the man using the knife will ever need.
 
Ed,
I'm glad to see someone has experience with this. Would you mind answering a couple of questions about the performance of the bainite blade?
1. Do you think the performance is related to the lesser amount of carbon in the bainite?
2. Or if it was upper bainite, the size of the carbides?
Thank you and regards, Greg
 
My original idea was running somewhat (I guess) on the same lines as Rippers. Take a UHC steel add enough additives to ball and limit the size of carbides and then a slight thermomechanical and on top bainitize. Just a thought that came when I read material on Damascus steels.

TLM
 
I did not own the blade there for I did not have any analysis done on it. The steel was claimed to be 52100, if it was, the carbon content should have been close to my 52100 test blade. The smaller the carbides, the greater the probability of high performance of a general nature.
My interest in in high total performance of the knife. Clean steel, oxygen content below 5ppm, titanium, less that 30ppm, sulfides in porportion to oxides and an absolute minimum of non metalic inclusions. Then you can go for total performance.

Should I be interested in bainite blades, I would, solely from a theoritical standpoint, investigate lower bainite. Bainite can be pretty, it can be plastic in nature but, I bleieve is way too soft for high cutting performance.
 
Another thought, Rex and I have been considering the possibility of a run of custom steel. Not a lot different from modern 52100 but stuff to push the window of performance. Should cost around $35,000. If anyone is interested in investing in this kind of venture, a slight amount of cash would be helpful.
 
Bainite would be a good choice for a sword or machete. It's very springy amd tough. It will take a good edge and if profiled a little on the heavy side,will make a fairly long lasting edge.
A thinner edge does not stand up as long as a tempered martinsite edge.
Ed, A small lot of steel with an optimun amount of alloys is a great idea.
Starting with todays clean steel practices and given a premimun rolling and forging cycle: this should make blades that slice like nobdys business.
Take care
Rex
 
Ed and Rex,

I'd be interested in some custom run steel. What would the specs be? And what would a minimum contribution be (I'm still a student!)?

Thanks,

John
 
John: Thank you for your interest. It would be a lot like 52100, with a little extra. The specs would be up to Rex to figure out, I am absolutely positive he has some dreams as to what it could be. So far there are three of us interested, you could have a third for somewhere around $12,000, this price would not include shipping. It would be nice if we could bring a few more in on the deal. WE will have tons to work with, if it goes, we would figure out a price for any increment. Sure is a nice dream, maybe we could pull it off. Any other knife makers interested?
 
Ed, I sure hope that you somehow are able to make this dream of yours come true. It would be very interesting to find out what knives made from this steel would be like.:)
 
Ed,

I'm suprised at you. Do you really think that I would allow you to leave me out of this?:D :D Do I really need to ask?:D :D :D
 
Ed, I would also be interested if the mill specs and
diameter were within the limits of what I use. I know
there are about as many reciepts for 52100
as there are companys that make ball bearings. You could
email me as to the particulars. I will be using a blade in
the cutting competition at Washington, Ark. this coming
week end made of 52100. The blade is 12 5/8" long and a 10"
handle. The blade was hardened half way up and tempered at
475 degrees for 2 hours twice. It has been doing well so far in the testing of the edge. It weighs 22 ounces now. This blade is made from the same batch as the JS test knife that was sent to Cliff Stamp for some cutting tests. Looking forward to your reply.
 
Bill you were in on the special run from the start, I just did not want to tell you about the $$$$$you were going to have to come up with.

Raker, we haven't worked up the specs on the run yet, still have a bunch of experiments to run and a lot of theory to evaluate. As soon as we come up with something that looks like it has merit to justify the expense I will let you know and we can share thoughts. In the mean time we plan on working with some 52100 that may be available that has some different chemistries just to get a look at how they influence performance. This may be years down the road, but is deffinately a glint in daddys eye. Thanks for the interest.
 
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