Balisong knife in New York City?

S

SAKowner

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Dec 30, 2008
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It doesn't open like a "gravity knife", when opened the blade doesn't lock like in a normal folder, and its clip-point blade is single-edged and under 4".

Would this knife be considered a "weapon" in NYC?
 
The NYPD has determined that butterfly knives are "dangerous" knives since they are designed to primilarily be used as a weapon. There are about six cases which the judge agrees with you, that they are NOT gravity knives, but none of those were in NYC, and it is hard to think a NYC judge would not interpert the present wording of the law to include butterfly knives as a dangerouse knife. Either way, the officer would 99% arrest you and you would be held upto 48 hours before being released and then the fun starts....
 
I should clarify that my balisong knife isn't for EDC. I was just wondering how much trouble I could potentially get in for keeping a balisong in my home (I use it to open mail and packages).
Would a "dangerous knife" charge be valid then since there are knives in the kitchen that are much larger and much more dangerous yet totally legal to own?
 
As long as you're not carrying it around with you, I wouldn't worry about it. If the cops are in your home and searching it in such a manner that they're likely to find the balisong and charge you for simple possession of it, you've probably got other problems already. Just don't leave it laying about for the neighborhood kids to play with.
 
Strictly legally, possession in NY means you have control over the item anywhere. Do you have a fishing/hunting/trapping license? If so, that would be a strong defense as you can own switchblades and gravity knives with anyone of those. I suggest leaving it in the drawer when not in use so it is not in plain sight. You would be amazed how many drug users call for EMS due to a reaction from the drugs they are using and the responding NYPD officer see the drugs/guns/stolen property out in plain site. I also have to say it but if your married and ever get into a domestic dispute, the spouse always mentions weapons when the boys in blue arrive.....
 
The knife is in a drawer, I don't do drugs, and I'm single. I live in an apartment. What I was a little concerned about is the super or one of his men spotting the knife. But they probably wouldn't care anyway.

A fishing/hunting/trapping license sound like a good idea for any knife owner/collector in NYC. :thumbup:
 
the fishing license is about $17 per year and get one cheap fishing set ( about $15) and you will comply.....hey there are many places to fresh water fish in NYC including Central Park and a lot in Queens, so who knows amybe you will start fishing!
 
The latitude afforded by that vague little phrase is astounding. I am also a balisong owner and naturally I have been wary of the legality issues from the get-go. I owned one when I was active in martial arts in Seattle and also for several years while I lived in Kansas.

I moved to NYC several years ago but only recently did I begin considering getting a balisong again. I went online to find out what I could about balisong tolerance in NYC and one of the first things I read was at this law page: http://www.mcacp.org/issue53.htm which mentions the NYS cases supporting the opinion that a balisong does not constitute a gravity knife (which has already been mentioned). The major determining factor in the rulings seemed to be that the balisong requires "manual locking". What I failed to notice the first time 'round was that these cases were held in NYS, not NYC. I initially felt pretty confident about owning one but after coming here and reading these posts, particularly the ones by tom19176, I should have known it wouldn't be all that easy in actuality.

To clarify, I assume this statute covers all knives of this construction, no matter the blade length (like the BM-32)?

Regarding the fishing license tom, you are saying that you must also buy a fishing set in order to comply? That makes sense if you are ever required to prove that you actually use the license. But then you only comply as far as possession is concerned right? It's still illegal to carry anything, even packed away deep inside a backpack where you can't easily reach it?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just not privy to the very tenuous footholds afforded knife owners in the city. Thanks in advance.

Brad

P.S. For your amusement, check out this recent article at the Gothamist about a shady little pizza shop in Williamsburg that offers a full array of brass knuckles and yes, even butterfly knives! There are a few comments from witnesses saying they have seen cops casually talking with the employees with the knuckles, folders and butterfly knives in plain sight. ???
(cheap "Pharoah" balisong can be seen in pic, top row, third from left)

http://gothamist.com/2009/03/11/some_brass_knuckles_with_your_slice.php
 
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Regarding possession in the home, I found a case that I quoted on this forum sometime back but I can't seem to find again. A guy had a fixed blade dagger velcroed to his bed. The police were in on a search warrant and found many things besides the dagger (I think it was drugs) but the judge in Appeals threw the possession charge for the dagger out because the circumstances clearly indicated it had a lawful purpose (self-defense while inside the home). The defendant still got sent up the river for the other stuff he had though. This was in NYC I'm pretty sure.
 
glistam said:
Regarding possession in the home, I found a case that I quoted on this forum sometime back but I can't seem to find again. A guy had a fixed blade dagger velcroed to his bed. The police were in on a search warrant and found many things besides the dagger (I think it was drugs) but the judge in Appeals threw the possession charge for the dagger out because the circumstances clearly indicated it had a lawful purpose (self-defense while inside the home). The defendant still got sent up the river for the other stuff he had though. This was in NYC I'm pretty sure.
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Do you have any other info about that case? Timeframe or anything? I would love to look it up on Westlaw and try to find the opinion (and possibly even appeals briefs...if available).
 
I mentioned getting a fishing pole as proof of intent to use the knife for that purpose as the law states for use while hunting, fishing, trapping and it is not a true permit allowing ownership, so I could see a judge feeling that you did not comply with the true intent of the law if you never obtained hunting, fishing or trapping equipment and used this exclusion as merely a permit to own these knives. Intent is a big factor in many NY laws interpertations.....It is legal to carry the knife to and from these sports and while engaged in these sports.
 
Ah ha!

People v Edwards, 2004. My bad, it was Albany County, not NYC. Perhaps still relevant though, and this shows that "presumption of intent" can be overridden by evidence to the contrary.

With respect to the dagger, however, we find merit in defendant's argument that the conviction must be reversed. By establishing possession of the dagger, the People were entitled [*3]to the statutory presumption that defendant intended to use the dagger unlawfully, and were charged appropriately (see Penal Law § 265.15 [4]). However, when weighed against the other circumstances of this case, we find that this bare presumption is insufficient to establish, beyond a reasonable doubt, that defendant possessed the dagger with intent to use it unlawfully. Indeed, the presumption is outweighed by the competing inference—drawn from the manner in which the dagger was attached to the bed, i.e., in plain view and to permit easy access to one lying in the bed—that the dagger was kept for self-defense, as a means of protection against an intruder. Accordingly, we find that defendant's conviction for criminal possession of the dagger was against the weight of the evidence.
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The major determining factor in the rulings seemed to be that the balisong requires "manual locking".
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So would a balisong knife be legal if its locking latch was removed? It would become just another non-locking folding knife, right?:confused:
 
glistam said:
Ah ha!

People v Edwards, 2004. My bad, it was Albany County, not NYC. Perhaps still relevant though, and this shows that "presumption of intent" can be overridden by evidence to the contrary.
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Well, finally a judge with some good common sense. I am glad that the man's conviction was overturned. I suppose that if the only purpose for the knife was self-defense in the home, any large knife would do. I probably would have chosen a large outdoors-type knife (such as the Cold Steel "Trailmaster" bowie). It can be explained away as a sportsman's tool in a court if you are facing a charge of criminal possession of a weapon. A dagger or a military-style knife might require a LOT more explaining. Or maybe it would just guarantee your conviction in some courts.
 
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