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Balisong legality in California?
- Thread starter William K
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2000
- Messages
- 115
No, it is illegal to own a balisong in California. Damn bastards, they make everything illegal!!! ****...But the wheather here is VERY nice right now. NO rain, no clouds, its like 75 degrees here. hehehe...
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2000
- Messages
- 187
i bet toilet paper is illegal here too!
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Mario Givens
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Mario Givens
Thankyou for that. If you are a current owner then, say, having owned one before the time they were legal, what then? Is there legal recourse, a "grandfather clause" if you were able to provide substantial proof that you owned prior to such legislation?
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R/
William
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R/
William
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2000
- Messages
- 307
If you are subject to a search at any given time, why are you even thinking about a balisong?
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~Howdy
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much [he] learned in seven years."
-- Mark Twain
Balilover, I'll try not to take that the wrong way
No, I am in the military, and I travel very frequently. While on base, I can be subject to search at any time. I have not been subject to a search often, however, the security is a majority civilian, and they can see fit to do what they feel needed. Also, while I do like the Balisongs, and I do have a wide variety of other knives - I am not in the habit of having in my possesions knives that are illegal. It can complicate things tremendously.
Captain Howdy,
Often, people who enforce the rules are not clear on what the rules are. It can be assumed sometimes that something is illegal.
Take my friends Jeep for instance. He likes to drive it with out doors. Security told him that it is illegal to drive with out doors on base, ticketted him, and made him leave, making him late for work. Now, no where is it illegal. We checked. When questioned, the officer said, "I'm sure it is illegal, I just don't know where.". Once settled, the notiriety (spelling) set in, and soon every tom, dick and Jeep driver was driving around base, sans doors. However, they were doing it with out mirrors, which, in the State of California is illegal. When I tried to explain it to a group of them, they became rude, saying "call the police". Luckily, one of them pulled out and was struck on the side by a car. He was uninjured, but was deemed at fault for not having checked for oncoming traffic - due to non presence of mirrors.
My point being that sometimes, it is assumed that one law covers all situations. This was the intent of my second question.
[This message has been edited by William K (edited 12-28-2000).]
No, I am in the military, and I travel very frequently. While on base, I can be subject to search at any time. I have not been subject to a search often, however, the security is a majority civilian, and they can see fit to do what they feel needed. Also, while I do like the Balisongs, and I do have a wide variety of other knives - I am not in the habit of having in my possesions knives that are illegal. It can complicate things tremendously.
Captain Howdy,
Often, people who enforce the rules are not clear on what the rules are. It can be assumed sometimes that something is illegal.
Take my friends Jeep for instance. He likes to drive it with out doors. Security told him that it is illegal to drive with out doors on base, ticketted him, and made him leave, making him late for work. Now, no where is it illegal. We checked. When questioned, the officer said, "I'm sure it is illegal, I just don't know where.". Once settled, the notiriety (spelling) set in, and soon every tom, dick and Jeep driver was driving around base, sans doors. However, they were doing it with out mirrors, which, in the State of California is illegal. When I tried to explain it to a group of them, they became rude, saying "call the police". Luckily, one of them pulled out and was struck on the side by a car. He was uninjured, but was deemed at fault for not having checked for oncoming traffic - due to non presence of mirrors.
My point being that sometimes, it is assumed that one law covers all situations. This was the intent of my second question.
[This message has been edited by William K (edited 12-28-2000).]
>>Is it legal to own a Balisong knife in
Switchblade knives are illegal in California if the blade is over 2 inchs. There is a California Attorney General Opinion that a Butterfly Knife is a switchblade. But that is just an opinion, they still have to get it to hold up in a court of law. From what I have heard from Levine, if someone looks like they are going to take them up on it in a court of law they will drop charges on it.
Of course now that the US Supreme court has ruled in Gore V Bush, that State Court Systems can not create laws, that may have an effect on the whole thing. I have a test case I am preparing on that now. Thanks, JohnR7 www.BalisongKnife.com
Switchblade knives are illegal in California if the blade is over 2 inchs. There is a California Attorney General Opinion that a Butterfly Knife is a switchblade. But that is just an opinion, they still have to get it to hold up in a court of law. From what I have heard from Levine, if someone looks like they are going to take them up on it in a court of law they will drop charges on it.
Of course now that the US Supreme court has ruled in Gore V Bush, that State Court Systems can not create laws, that may have an effect on the whole thing. I have a test case I am preparing on that now. Thanks, JohnR7 www.BalisongKnife.com
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2000
- Messages
- 307
Here's a link to what you want to know:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt
Also, check out this thread, which is pretty informative:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum47/HTML/000312.html
I've asked the same questions about the legality of butterflys in CA myself, and basically it's up to the law enforcement officer at the time of discovery. In almost all cases (with no proof mind you), they will confiscate the knife from you. Then, depending on who the LEO is, they may arrest you on a misdemeanor charge. Then you'd have to go to court and challenge whatever decision is made against you. This could be a pain in the a** after so many visits to the court. But, I've decided to stop carrying in public simply because of the huge possibility that your BM42 will be confiscated.
So, would you want to risk losing such an investment? Would the base security feel the same way as any other LEO when it comes to balisongs? You'd have to decide this for yourself. But, being a military personal, I'd think that would grant you some priviliges like carrying a concealed weapon in public (I may be wrong about this, sorry I just don't know). Maybe they would be relaxed on the issue of balisongs as well.
I know the feeling of wanting to collect balisongs as well
So, if you have to collect them out of interest, by all means go ahead. But would you be content on leaving it at home when you travel? You may have to.
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~Howdy
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much [he] learned in seven years."
-- Mark Twain
[This message has been edited by Cpt. Howdy (edited 12-28-2000).]
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt
Also, check out this thread, which is pretty informative:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum47/HTML/000312.html
I've asked the same questions about the legality of butterflys in CA myself, and basically it's up to the law enforcement officer at the time of discovery. In almost all cases (with no proof mind you), they will confiscate the knife from you. Then, depending on who the LEO is, they may arrest you on a misdemeanor charge. Then you'd have to go to court and challenge whatever decision is made against you. This could be a pain in the a** after so many visits to the court. But, I've decided to stop carrying in public simply because of the huge possibility that your BM42 will be confiscated.
So, would you want to risk losing such an investment? Would the base security feel the same way as any other LEO when it comes to balisongs? You'd have to decide this for yourself. But, being a military personal, I'd think that would grant you some priviliges like carrying a concealed weapon in public (I may be wrong about this, sorry I just don't know). Maybe they would be relaxed on the issue of balisongs as well.
I know the feeling of wanting to collect balisongs as well
------------------
~Howdy
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much [he] learned in seven years."
-- Mark Twain
[This message has been edited by Cpt. Howdy (edited 12-28-2000).]
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2000
- Messages
- 307
Yeah, it's interesting how section 653k states that, "Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle... a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor." Does this really mean it's ok to carry your switch blades and balisongs in the trunk of you car?
Also, as long as you're not carrying them in, "any public place or place open to the public," does this mean it's legal to carry them elsewhere?
And, according to 12020(a), "Any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any... ballistic knife, any belt buckle knife..., any shuriken..., any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobe-zui, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife... or who carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger, is guilty of a felony..." Does this mean it is ok to ship switch blades/balisongs to California (from another state)?
If all of the above are true, then it should be perfectly legal to buy switch blades/balisongs out of state for collection purposes or carrying in non-public places, or to transport them in public places if they are stored in an external comparment of a motor vehicle.
Did I miss something here?
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~Howdy
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much [he] learned in seven years."
-- Mark Twain
[This message has been edited by Cpt. Howdy (edited 12-28-2000).]
Also, as long as you're not carrying them in, "any public place or place open to the public," does this mean it's legal to carry them elsewhere?
And, according to 12020(a), "Any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any... ballistic knife, any belt buckle knife..., any shuriken..., any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobe-zui, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife... or who carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger, is guilty of a felony..." Does this mean it is ok to ship switch blades/balisongs to California (from another state)?
If all of the above are true, then it should be perfectly legal to buy switch blades/balisongs out of state for collection purposes or carrying in non-public places, or to transport them in public places if they are stored in an external comparment of a motor vehicle.
Did I miss something here?
------------------
~Howdy
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much [he] learned in seven years."
-- Mark Twain
[This message has been edited by Cpt. Howdy (edited 12-28-2000).]
Capt Howdy,
Thank you for the information. A little word on Military folks. Contrary to what they (or we) would like people to think sometimes, we are not allowed to carry conceled (spelling) weapons just because we want to. In fact (and I am using the word fact in the true sense of it), we are often forbidden from bringing knives or guns on base, ships, or aircraft. I would say, that 90% of the military is NOT allowed to carry a private weapon.. if it violates any local law. Those who can are generally special forces or undercover LEO. It is generally illegal to take a military weapon off base.. This is especially true of students in seal training/EOD training - whom often assume since they are "going to be" (but likely are not with a 75% failure) that they can carry a weapon.
Just some info on what I know, fair trade for good help I hope?
Thank you for the information. A little word on Military folks. Contrary to what they (or we) would like people to think sometimes, we are not allowed to carry conceled (spelling) weapons just because we want to. In fact (and I am using the word fact in the true sense of it), we are often forbidden from bringing knives or guns on base, ships, or aircraft. I would say, that 90% of the military is NOT allowed to carry a private weapon.. if it violates any local law. Those who can are generally special forces or undercover LEO. It is generally illegal to take a military weapon off base.. This is especially true of students in seal training/EOD training - whom often assume since they are "going to be" (but likely are not with a 75% failure) that they can carry a weapon.
Just some info on what I know, fair trade for good help I hope?
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2000
- Messages
- 1,350
It's like the carry laws here in Florida. Many people talk about a 3 step rule where-in if you have to make 3 different steps to get the gun and have it ready then it is okay. (classic example is in the glovebox with the clip out with the glovebox locked.) This however is not true since the law states that it is up to the Officers discretion. You will find however that most police officers are not 100% sure what all of the laws are so they would rather be safe than sorry and you will be punished for something that may not be illegal. And as always, the officer's word is almost always taken as correct in a court of law.
Okie i'm in the military too, Army as a matter of fact. Yeah it's usually agains AR regs and all that stuff to carry a weapon. But you have to remember, when you are on a military base, you are on federal land. You have the legal right to own things that are not legal outside of the base. This is all relative as to your commander and 1st sgt. Just ask them what they would allow. The MP's might be a whole different matter but i'll doubt a knife is your problemm if they are searching you. Personally all the guys i know carry all the multi-tool, switch, OTF's and some of us Bali. I carry one all the time. The trick is, put it in a multi-tool case if you want to be absolutely sure. Cause hey, bali looks just like a multi any day. I do not advise you to break the law, cause for us it's federal law and you know Leavenworth ain't pretty. Just ask, most people are often too scared to ask their commander and 1sgt, or the base sergeant. Ask and it shall be given, that's what i live by. Hey getting my E-5 in april, and damn if i am only 18.
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Peter Bui
Some guy in California just ate a worm and boy is it yummy.
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Peter Bui
Some guy in California just ate a worm and boy is it yummy.
Just curious about how all this applies to shipping a bali to Calif. I note that just about all dealers and catalogs state "Cannot Be Shippte To CA" or something similar. So, is a dealer breaking the law by shipping a bali to a state (or city) where it is illegal - or quasi-legal, or, as seems to be the case in many places, where the legality of a bali is pretty much a judgement call on the part of police?
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2000
- Messages
- 187
maury-
usually if they will ship to somewhere where they are illegal they say ''IT IS THE RESPONSEABILITY OF THE BUYER TO CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS.WE ARE NOT RESPONSEABLE FOR BLAH BLAH BLAH.''
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Mario Givens
usually if they will ship to somewhere where they are illegal they say ''IT IS THE RESPONSEABILITY OF THE BUYER TO CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS.WE ARE NOT RESPONSEABLE FOR BLAH BLAH BLAH.''
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Mario Givens