Balisongs in Michigan.

P

powderkid

Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
17
I have heard that it's legal to own one in your home, but you can't carry it.

And yes I have looked at the actuall laws on the state website, but I can't extract anything from it.

"- 750.226a. Pocket knife opened by mechanical device...
Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or
any person who shall have in his possession any knife
having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or
blades of which can be opened by a flick of a button,
pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall
be guilty of a misdemeanor... [Also, concealed carry may
be charged as a felony under 750.227.] The provisions of
this section [750.226a] shall not apply to any one-armed
person carrying a knife on his person in connection with
his living requirements."


I can't see anything about "gravity" etc in here.

stupid knife laws.
 
There is nothing in statute per se that prohibits ownership OR carrying, provided the blade is under 3".
 
I have a feeling that a bali would be considered a "dangerous weapon"

some case law

"Daggers, dirks, stilettos... and similar articles,
designed for the purpose of bodily assault or defense, are
generally recognized as 'dangerous weapons per se'..."
(1945)

I would avoid carrying one in Michigan. They are legal to own though.
 
thanks for the responses guys, I will be getting one as a collectible piece instead of a carry knife. But it doesn't annoy me that it would be classified as a "dangerous weapon" most people are so ignorant that they thing butterfly knives are more dangerous than a regular knife just because the look impressive.

sheeple, what are ya gonna do!
 
Glistman, It's not illegal to carry a knife with a blade over 3".
If you read the law, the first sentence says. "If carried with the intent of commiting an unlawful act", (they have to prove you were out to harm someone with it).
If they confiscate your knife. Sue their employer, the city, county whatever, for violation of you civil rights, 4th amendment, I believe.
If it's hunting season then you can carry a hunting knife.
 
AR fan said:
Glistman, It's not illegal to carry a knife with a blade over 3".
If you read the law, the first sentence says. "If carried with the intent of commiting an unlawful act", (they have to prove you were out to harm someone with it).
If they confiscate your knife. Sue their employer, the city, county whatever, for violation of you civil rights, 4th amendment, I believe.
If it's hunting season then you can carry a hunting knife.
Click to expand...

True, though many places have this nasty habit of presuming unlawful intent just based on the knife's appearance. Though how often this happens in practice depends on the jurisdiction.
 
Yes, I know, That's part of what outrages me.
When I went to buy a hunting knife, the knife shop had the law along with the first sentence HIGHLIGHTED taped to the counter. So I felt comfortable about buying a deer hunting knife with a blade about 3.5".
When I got home, I called the local State Police post, and was told that ALL knives with blades over 3" will be confiscated, and you will be charged. I doubted this so I called another in another town. I got the same answer. When I read the first sentence to the officer, he replied "Well we'll just assume you were going to use it for something unlawful".
I called another and got basically the same answer.
Am I the only one that finds this outrageous?
The police are taking peoples property, even when there's no unlawful intent, (they admitted it to me when I called them), and unless you hire a lawyer to try to reclaim your property you lose your knife! I bet I know who takes them home if they aren't reclaimed!
And in most cases hiring a lawyer to get your knife back will most likely cost more than the knife was worth.
And if you don't think the Police up here won't do this type of thing, think again. A pair of MI State Police were caught and convicted of poaching deer, on duty, in their squad car, with a confiscated rifle.
These police do what they want, they are by far THEE most corrupt police force I have ever heard off.
 
Don't get too discouraged. You just said a magic word: "confiscate," not "arrest."

Confiscation without arrest or citation (I think the technical term is "willful forfeit") is actually a wobbly area of law, in that it skirts due process and the officer does not enjoy the normal qualified immunity. It is for this reason that most departments actually do not allow this; such departments require that the officer either make the arrest or issue a citation, and that any seized property be documented with a receipt. Other don't though.

The solution? Don't let them get away with it. Quite simple, ask for a receipt or citation. Don't believe any threats they make. If you get cited, fight it in court on equal footing.

I wouldn't care if my legal expenses were more the value of the knife, I'd fight that in court to the bitter end. And I would win too, probably without much of a struggle. It's not about reclaiming property, it's about making a statement that this is unlawful. Trust me, enough lawsuits will make any department shape up.
 
AR fan said:
Yes, I know, That's part of what outrages me.
When I went to buy a hunting knife, the knife shop had the law along with the first sentence HIGHLIGHTED taped to the counter. So I felt comfortable about buying a deer hunting knife with a blade about 3.5".
When I got home, I called the local State Police post, and was told that ALL knives with blades over 3" will be confiscated, and you will be charged. I doubted this so I called another in another town. I got the same answer. When I read the first sentence to the officer, he replied "Well we'll just assume you were going to use it for something unlawful".
I called another and got basically the same answer.
Am I the only one that finds this outrageous?
The police are taking peoples property, even when there's no unlawful intent, (they admitted it to me when I called them), and unless you hire a lawyer to try to reclaim your property you lose your knife! I bet I know who takes them home if they aren't reclaimed!
And in most cases hiring a lawyer to get your knife back will most likely cost more than the knife was worth.
And if you don't think the Police up here won't do this type of thing, think again. A pair of MI State Police were caught and convicted of poaching deer, on duty, in their squad car, with a confiscated rifle.
These police do what they want, they are by far THEE most corrupt police force I have ever heard off.
Click to expand...

Where in the state are you located? If you're in a more urban area I'm not at all suprised at the answer you got. I'm normally bound by the Detroit ordinance (3" is actual limit) and as I work and go to school in Detroit I follow this nearly every day, and as such most of my EDC type knives conform to this limit. When I'm in more urban areas/suburbia I try to keep my knife under 3".

When I'm in more rural areas I will occassionaly carry something a little bigger. I try to avoid tactical looking blades, and usually make sure that the knives are non-serrated and don't have a black blade. I've had officers see both my Benchmade Grip (over 3") and my spyderco pacific salt (also over 3") and they never mentioned a thing.

I try to make sure that my appearance also will work for me when I'm carrying a knife over three inches. Looking like you just came out of the woods from a hike, hunting, fishing or what not always helps. Most of the times I've been stopped and asked if I had any weapons I usually just say "No weapons officer, but I do have a pocket knife".

The best solution is to carry what you want and don't do anything that will bring you into contact with police. If you're in a situation where it is likely that you may come into contact with LEO's then carry something under 3", and better yet perhaps just a SAK or a traditional slipjoint. These sort of knives fly completely under the radar, even of LEOs.
 
No, I live in the northern part off MI. We don't have any local ordinances that limit us to 3".
That's what makes the information given to me by the State Police so amazing, (you'll understand better if you read post #7).
The Officer that really amazed me was the one that was told that the first sentence in the law read, there has to be intent to commit an unlawful act. "He said, "Well I'll just assume you were going too, and confiscate it."
There's still no news of the 2 State Police officers that were convicted of poaching deer, on duty, in their squad car, with a confiscated gun. It's amazing how quiet the bigshots can keep something if they want to
I think part of the problem is that there is usually 1 officer to a car, and because of the size off the area other units tend to be aways away. There is very little oversight from superior officers. This allows a rogue officer to get away with a lot of BS before someone stands up to him. The problem is if you do stand up to people like this you tend to get tickets everytime you pull out out of your driveway.
Why should I have to sneak around carrying smaller knives than I want, when what I want to carry is perfectly legal?
 
Please, any help would be appreciated, this is an ongoing problem. I'm voicing this not as someone whom has problems with law enforcement. Quite the contrary, I was a law enforcement officer for many years.
What is the most effective route in which someone can take to expose this blatant disregard of the law? There's been no response.
Apparentlly, because NO ONE HAS had the balls to do so!!!!!
 
Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully
against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or
knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any
other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall
be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine
of not more than 2,500 dollars.

the key words there are "or"

so:
unlawfull intent (doesnt matter the leingth)
"or"
over 3"
or
dangerous weapon

initially it was ment to give the officer alot of discression, but now 99% of that has been taken away.
Personally, I'd rather not be a test case in court.
 
That's what I'm trying to get across. Your complacency is what allows this type of behavior to thrive.
 
lol..whatever, I'm not sure what you want to hear..but bitching about it here does nothing.Neither does pushing the buttons of local law enforcement.

you want to change the law, put a bug in the ear of your rep. or congressman. Have you contacted yours? Written letters? Met with him/her face to face?

complacency? What have you done to change the law in question besides whine about it here?
 
Manitou Beach? we're neighbors.
I live inside 30 min. of you and I don't appreciate being called a BITCH.
Yes I have contacted the local Rep. (Stupak).
WHINING, (implying childish behaviour?).
 
AR fan said:
Manitou Beach? we're neighbors.
I live inside 30 min. of you and I don't appreciate being called a BITCH.
Yes I have contacted the local Rep. (Stupak).
WHINING, (implying childish behaviour?).
Click to expand...
LMAO..you seem to have a reading comprehension problem
is that some attempt at a threat?
 
Chill out ARfan...he said "Bitching" as in whining...he did not call you the b word your reading that into it...

Sshepard is right you dont like the law? you have two choices, work to have it changed or disobey the law. One way is the right way the other way is well..you could face consequences.
 
AR fan said:
Please, any help would be appreciated, this is an ongoing problem. I'm voicing this not as someone whom has problems with law enforcement. Quite the contrary, I was a law enforcement officer for many years.
What is the most effective route in which someone can take to expose this blatant disregard of the law? There's been no response.
Apparentlly, because NO ONE HAS had the balls to do so!!!!!
Click to expand...

AR fan said:
Manitou Beach? we're neighbors.
I live inside 30 min. of you and I don't appreciate being called a BITCH.
Yes I have contacted the local Rep. (Stupak).
WHINING, (implying childish behaviour?).
Click to expand...

AR fan, I appreciate your frustration. A lot of us would like to live in "a more perfect Union". But your posts take on the flavor of mocking members who don't leap to join your crusade. Not the way to get a cooperative, productive discussion going.

SShepherd is right. Community improvement works best through legal and representational action, not internet complaining ("technical" term: WHINING). It's a long, slow task under the best of circumstances. It may have to be done indirectly, through political clubs and support of alternate candidates. Outreach to police departments themselves might even help, as long as that outreach isn't focused on just your own grievance.

Keep this in mind also. You may be misinterpreting the police reactions. Anti-knife feeling is much more widespread in our society than it needs to be. it has become a convenient media story, and the police get a lot of their direction from what they can plainly see most of society wants.

Maybe you need to get a few people to join you in routinely writing to challenge facile media assumptions, before going after public servants who don't write the rules, in letter or in spirit.
 
If you read posts 14 and 16 you can see that Shepherd initiated the tone of the posts that followed from me.
 
Are you telling me that he hit you back first? :D

Read Ren's advice. It's more succinct than mine.
Sorry to have overloaded your receptors.
 
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