banana shape vs hawkbill , effective slashing

[diamdave]

There has been much discussion on the effectiveness of Hawkbill style blades when used for slashing. I notice many blade shapes, especially of Japanese-design, are just the opposite, that is 'banana' shaped.... has anyone done any comparisons as to the slashing results of two seemingly mirror-image shapes? I've done some preliminary unscientific practice and I can't really tell.

 

[calyth]

I'm no expert on this, but I would think japanese swords were used for chopping the head off or some other vitals. Sure, the sword would definately cut well, but i would think if you use a pull cut you'll find that it doesn't cut as deep as the hawkbill, because of the blade shape of the hawkbill, it will cut deep when you do a pull cut.

 

[Crayola]

Actually Calyth, you have it backwards! Japanese swords are not choppers. Chopping swords would be something like a alcatta or a kopis. Choping knife similar to this would be a khukuri. Japanese swords are emant for cutting, and even on the stroke you are to draw the blade through, as well as swing, hence getting a powerful cutting motion going.

Slashing works well if the slashing blade is at and angle to the object it is cutting. I thin this present more blade to the medium, as well as more power. I think guillotine blades were angled, at least the latter ones. You get a much better shearing effect with an angle.

The hawkbill and the banana shape offer an angle to the target. Which one will penetrate better? Neither, I suspect. 2 four inch blades, one a banana and one a hawkbill, will both penetrate 3 inches if you reach 3 inches behind your target and swing. How to pick between which blade?

Ease of Sharpening, utility work you do, thrusting ability, etc. must be your criterion, and judge accordingly. I don't have a hawkbill because I think a banana blade (emerson CQC-8, lets say) would be easier to sharpen, better fo rmy every day carry, and easier to thrust accurately with.

I hope this helps.

 

[Allen E. Treat]

I would say either shape would work well, with advantages / disadvantages on BOTH sides ; if I were going for a "banana"
shape, I would shoot for a Cold Steel "Scimitar" which I am
to understand is "scary" sharp ( especially w/ serrations )
A hawkbill would pale in a "draw" cut where the "banana" would
excel. Samurai swords ( katanas / wakisashis ) will BOTH cut & chop,
Lynn Thompson demonstrated this in his video & seems to be his "selling point" for his Cold Steel line. In my thread about hawkbill shapes, I was looking for input either way, NOT to state
the hawkbill was "superior" to any other blade shape, but for "utility/self defense" purposes. For pure defense, give me the "Scimitar"

"...and let him that has no sword sell his robe and buy one..."

Luke 22:36

A.E.T.

 

[calyth]

Crayola Thanks for the heads up.
I just thought that because of the hawkbill's shape, when doing a draw cut, it would've cut much easier than a "banana" shaped one.
Either way I want a Harpy/Civilian

 

[Jeff Clark]

Swords are designed as purely weapons while the designs of machetes, axes, and knives usually have features to give them other utilitarian functions. A sword is optimized for long reach, speed, and cutting effectiveness. Long reach requires a long sword--that's a no-brainer, but for a straight sword cutting effectiveness tends to go up with weight which reduces speed. Curved swords like sabers and Katanas achieve cutting effectiveness with reduced weight by having a blade curve that adds a slicing effect to their cutting stroke.

A hawkbill sword of similar dimensions would tend to twist and pull out of a user's hand--it would not make a great light weight sword. A Kukuri is designed to function as a machete as well as a weapon. It's shorter length with heavier weight helps avoid the blade twist problems, but I wouldn't want to face a Samurai with a Kukuri.

For a small personal defense knife the differences are smaller. The Arabs use curved double-edge knives that can be used either as a hawkbill or slashing with the point trailing. The trouble with the small hawkbill is that it can get snagged in clothing and gear. If you hit a buckle, belt, strap, or even heavy loose clothing in the wrong way you may lose your hawkbill. I like a knife with the point about even with the back end of the blade and a lot of curve in the last couple inches up to the point. That is a very effective slasher and good for utility purposes as well.