Bark River Bravo 1 Elmax?

[DeadboxHero]

Anyone know for sure why they don't have an Elmax option for the Bravo 1?

I know they make an Elmax Gunny but its too tiny.

My guess is brittleness but is it really too brittle for a knife the size of a Bravo 1?

 

[DeadboxHero]

Any Bark River guys out there?

 

[craytab]

Don't know the answer to your question. I wouldn't expect this to be the best forum to ask such a specific question about BRK, though this is the best forum in general.

What I can say is that I love my BRKs. I also love the Elmax in my ZTs. I might be mistaken but does the B1 not come in s35vn? If so, I think I would prefer that steel over Elmax but I would honestly like one in both

 

[DeadboxHero]

Thanks for the response Craytab.

There always seems to be a guru on here with little jems of knowledge. I just never know until I ask.

S35vn is good. I'm just looking for something closer to or better edge retention then Fallknivens 3G but in an overall more attractive package that fits my bear mitts better then a Fallkniven.

 

[craytab]

I can see you are in the NW. I lived west of the cascades for 28 years. I can understand the allure of a stainless knife. That said, living here in PA, we actually get more wet than when I lived in the Willamette valley. This is especially true in the summer. It rains here constantly when in Oregon we would have a 3 month drought. Rust is far more of a concern where I live now even though it wouldn't seem to be. Constant summer humidity is a pain.

So, all that said, have you considered a BRK in 3v? It is semi stainless. It is currently my favorite hard use steel. Take a look at it if you haven't. I would be hard pressed to get a BRK that wasn't in 3v these days.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Right on glad to converse with another Northwesterner, I'm usually camping in the rain to beat the crowds and to have an excuse to make a fire.

I'm weary about semi stainless because of the extra maintaince compared to stainless.

I'm usually too tired to keep my blade well oiled and cleaned from the long hike in and various camp chores. As well as packing in the oil bottle.
The less things that need attention the more time can be put towards comfort in uncomfortable places after all it's just recreational. Patinas are cool but I prefer not to have them on $200 plus knives.

I'm always hearing great things about 3v being the best fixed blade steel of our time.

It's claim is toughness but I doubt I'd see any benefit to this as I prefer 5" to 3" fixed knives and I'm never putting impact stress on the edge or hitting the ground when batoning. I want the hardest, longest egde holding stainless without those big vanadium carbides.

Perhaps 3v is the best steel for the outdoor, I just don't have the ability currently to find out for myself.

 

[strategy9]

S35VN actually has the same Vanadium content as ELMAX (3%); which is actually 1% less then s30v.
It has twice the moly, less chromium, and lower carbon as ELMAX, but with nitrogen added it helps with the edge retention and stainless properties that less carbon and chromium would typically lead to a lack of comparatively.

It also has half a % niobium (harder carbides) plus small amounts of nickle, tungsten, and cobalt added which further helps with balancing out strength, toughness, and stainless properties...

 

[bodog]

Right on glad to converse with another Northwesterner, I'm usually camping in the rain to beat the crowds and to have an excuse to make a fire.

I'm weary about semi stainless because of the extra maintaince compared to stainless.

I'm usually too tired to keep my blade well oiled and cleaned from the long hike in and various camp chores. As well as packing in the oil bottle.
The less things that need attention the more time can be put towards comfort in uncomfortable places after all it's just recreational. Patinas are cool but I prefer not to have them on $200 plus knives.

I'm always hearing great things about 3v being the best fixed blade steel of our time.

It's claim is toughness but I doubt I'd see any benefit to this as I prefer 5" to 3" fixed knives and I'm never putting impact stress on the edge or hitting the ground when batoning. I want the hardest, longest egde holding stainless without those big vanadium carbides.

Perhaps 3v is the best steel for the outdoor, I just don't have the ability currently to find out for myself.

If you want a 3 to 5 inch fixed blade in a stainless you're on the right track with elmax, but know that M390 is basically the same. Bradford Blades has some good 3 and 4 inch options in m390. Survive knives has some of the same. Are you only considering Bark River and are you only considering elmax? And what's your price range, about $200 +/-?

 

[Eric@DLT]

There aren't any plans right now to make a Bravo 1 in elmax. For this knife s35vn will be the best stainless you can get.

 

[DeadboxHero]

If you want a 3 to 5 inch fixed blade in a stainless you're on the right track with elmax, but know that M390 is basically the same. Bradford Blades has some good 3 and 4 inch options in m390. Survive knives has some of the same. Are you only considering Bark River and are you only considering elmax? And what's your price range, about $200 +/-?

Convex grinds are king for my use and preferences. That narrows my options.

There aren't any plans right now to make a Bravo 1 in elmax. For this knife s35vn will be the best stainless you can get.

Do you see this changing in the future?

S35VN actually has the same Vanadium content as ELMAX (3%); which is actually 1% less then s30v.
It has twice the moly, less chromium, and lower carbon as ELMAX, but with nitrogen added it helps with the edge retention and stainless properties that less carbon and chromium would typically lead to a lack of comparatively.

It also has half a % niobium (harder carbides) plus small amounts of nickle, tungsten, and cobalt added which further helps with balancing out strength, toughness, and stainless properties...

Over my head, hahahaha

 

[Eric@DLT]

No I don't. The only hope would be an LT version and that might be a year from now. Dealers need a ton of 3v stuff, aside from what is currently on the schedule, before that project would be put into fruition.

 

[chiral.grolim]

...I want the hardest, longest egde holding stainless without those big vanadium carbides...

What do you mean, "big"? Vanadium carbides are among the smallest and strongest available in a knife-steel, also less likely to aggregate than many others, especially chromium. Vanadium carbide is even added into tungsten-carbide manufacturing to further refine carbide grain-size, i.e. smaller, to improve toughness and wear.


What about a convex primary bevel makes it so attractive to you? What do you imagine it being better for?

 

[DeadboxHero]

What do you mean, "big"? Vanadium carbides are among the smallest and strongest available in a knife-steel, also less likely to aggregate than many others, especially chromium. Vanadium carbide is even added into tungsten-carbide manufacturing to further refine carbide grain-size, i.e. smaller, to improve toughness and wear.


What about a convex primary bevel makes it so attractive to you? What do you imagine it being better for?

Haha well shows what I know. My opinion is im just not a fan of s90v or S110, its harder to sharpen for me. I feel Elmax and M390 also takes a keener edge.

I like bushcraft stuff. Convex carves wood better.

 

[strategy9]

Over my head, hahahaha

Fair enough, lol... In lamens terms;

Haha well shows what I know. My opinion is im just not a fan of s90v or S110, its harder to sharpen for me. I feel Elmax and M390 also takes a keener edge.

I like bushcraft stuff. Convex carves wood better.

S35VN is a pretty darn good stainless knife steel that ypu can safely say when properly manufactured and heat treated falls right in the same general category as an ELMAX and an m390 in terms of all around performance; edge holding/retention, and ease/difficulty of sharpening... They're certainly all different in their own rites, with their pros and cons, but generally speaking the 3 are on par with each other regarding blades as quality steels; s35vn is Maybe not quite as stainless as the others I would think, (but don't have any science to prove it disprove this), but it is still pretty stainless, because the nitrogen (and other elements) help make up for the lower chromium levels; m390 will hold its edge the longest and elmax i would say is probably the most well rounded and balanced of the 3, though s35vn will still take and hold a decent edge, again, nitrogen (and other elements) help to make up for the lower carbon content, but It would likely be the strongest and toughest of the bunch thanks to all the other elements in the matrix... But again, the 3 are I would say, "seated at the same table" and should be considered in the same discussion. So if you like ELMAX (I do too), and m390, and you like the bravo1, you should definitely give the s35vn bravo1 consideration, there's a very good chance it falls right into your comfort zone...

 

[chiral.grolim]

Haha well shows what I know. My opinion is im just not a fan of s90v or S110, its harder to sharpen for me. I feel Elmax and M390 also takes a keener edge.

I like bushcraft stuff. Convex carves wood better.

Well, objectively those all can be taken to the same level of edge refinement, there've been tests proving it, it's really all about sharpening technique, equipment, and the edge-geometry on different knives...

BUT that doesn't mean that some users have better luck than others with different steels! As long as you can get your knife sharp enough for the task at hand using the tools you have available, and it holds that edge well enough for your needs, :thumbup:

S90V and S110V are different creatures, with ~9% vanadium and ~2.5% carbon they are approaching 20% carbide volume. S35VN and Elmax are both closer to 10-12% carbide volume.

Regarding carving wood, nearly all chisels and planes are flat-grind, just something to consider. Moras are well regarded for their carving ability... also flat grind. Something else to consider is that usually only the first few tenths of an inch or so are doing the carving, which precludes the need for a convex curve to the primary bevel. You can put a convex edge on any flat-grind blade. Don't limit your options to BRKT for dubious reasons.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Well, objectively those all can be taken to the same level of edge refinement, there've been tests proving it, it's really all about sharpening technique, equipment, and the edge-geometry on different knives...

BUT that doesn't mean that some users have better luck than others with different steels! As long as you can get your knife sharp enough for the task at hand using the tools you have available, and it holds that edge well enough for your needs, :thumbup:

S90V and S110V are different creatures, with ~9% vanadium and ~2.5% carbon they are approaching 20% carbide volume. S35VN and Elmax are both closer to 10-12% carbide volume.

Regarding carving wood, nearly all chisels and planes are flat-grind, just something to consider. Moras are well regarded for their carving ability... also flat grind. Something else to consider is that usually only the first few tenths of an inch or so are doing the carving, which precludes the need for a convex curve to the primary bevel. You can put a convex edge on any flat-grind blade. Don't limit your options to BRKT for dubious reasons.

Right on brother, your steel knowledge is out of my league.

Good info.

The full height convex grind to the edge works the best for wood carving, out of the knives I've used, owned and tested. It will change if I find something better.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Fair enough, lol... In lamens terms;



S35VN is a pretty darn good stainless knife steel that ypu can safely say when properly manufactured and heat treated falls right in the same general category as an ELMAX and an m390 in terms of all around performance; edge holding/retention, and ease/difficulty of sharpening... They're certainly all different in their own rites, with their pros and cons, but generally speaking the 3 are on par with each other regarding blades as quality steels; s35vn is Maybe not quite as stainless as the others I would think, (but don't have any science to prove it disprove this), but it is still pretty stainless, because the nitrogen (and other elements) help make up for the lower chromium levels; m390 will hold its edge the longest and elmax i would say is probably the most well rounded and balanced of the 3, though s35vn will still take and hold a decent edge, again, nitrogen (and other elements) help to make up for the lower carbon content, but It would likely be the strongest and toughest of the bunch thanks to all the other elements in the matrix... But again, the 3 are I would say, "seated at the same table" and should be considered in the same discussion. So if you like ELMAX (I do too), and m390, and you like the bravo1, you should definitely give the s35vn bravo1 consideration, there's a very good chance it falls right into your comfort zone...

Thanks bro, great info

 

[chiral.grolim]

The full height convex grind to the edge works the best for wood carving, out of the knives I've used, owned and tested. It will change if I find something better.

:thumbup:

Then my suggestion is typical bladeforums: buy a couple of knives with designs you like in steels you maybe haven't tried (maybe even a flat-grind to compare against the convex, but make sure the geometry, i.e. bevel height and thickness, is similar), e.g. see if the S35VN Bravo LT works for you, perhaps comparing it to a CPM-3V knife from a different maker... or even the same? I know, that takes some $$$ but since the final judgement has to be a personal one... *shrug*

I wish you luck!