Bark River Golok for Northwoods?

[Runs With Scissors]

I'm kinda eyeballin' one of these and wondering what the feedback is thus far?

I know I've loved every Bark River product I've owned, and that they seem to put pragmatic sensibilities above trend and fashion.

I'm just wondering about the versatility of these things, where they shine and where they fail....

It's pretty cool and useful looking, but I don't wanna dump over $100 into a glorified yard machete, ya' know?

Lemme know what y'all think, eh?

Thanks!

 

[Edd-UK]

all i will say is its a 'real lightsabre'

go get one

 

[knifetester]

It looks like it would be decent for limbing and such, if BRKT is using a decent heat treater (last I heard they farmed it out) and there hae been numerous reports of HT issues on other forums.

Convex profiles like that are nice because of their low bind rate and are an optimal edge configuration for wood work, at least for me.

A2 is a decent choice of steel, better than the ATS34 some would have used, but I would prefer a spring steel like 5160.

The handle design does not look like it would work for me, far too thin and the scales would need to be roughed a bit. Handle design on BRKT knives is a poor match for my hands, I looked at a number of their knives at a knife show, the Northstar, Mikro, Highlander etc, none fit my hand well.

As well, fit and finish was extremely poor, uneven grinds, scales not attached right, gaps, etc, and those were the display pieces! The sheaths were all very low quality.

Some decent blade designs, severe problems in execution, I would never buy one without the ability to inspect first.

Edited to add: I have inspeced a number (over 50) BRKT knives and all were very sharp, I would expect the golok to be the same.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Have they promoted the knife for actual wood work? Has the edge geometry ever been specified?

-Cliff

 

[knifetester]

YEah, that was pretty much its intended use. They sent out samples to Jim Aston and a British Sgt. to test. I would like to here about Jim Aston's views, I am not sure if they were published for public use or just internal use. I did not see anything on his site.

Here is a review by one of their official field Testers and designer:
http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=2517

And BRKT's other designer and field tester:
http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=2509

Development of the prototype by the British SGT.:
http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=970

Grind looks full convex. I ma sure it will come shaving sharp, as BRKY does put out nice edges.

These are the Specs:

Blade Langth: 11.375"
Overall Length: 17.375"
Blade Steel: 0170-6 High Carbon Steel
Blade Thickness: .215"
Hardness: 58RC
Pins: Stainless Steel 304 or Mosaics.
Construction: Full Exposed Tang
Weight: 17.375 ounces
Sheath: Brown Leather
Markings: Bark River Logo on the Left face--North Star Compass point on the Right---All 100 will be marked "Prototype" on the right facing with the Compass point.

Handle Options and Prices:

Black Canvas Micarta------------------159.95 (Solid Pins)
Green Canvas Micarta-----------------169.95 (Solid Pins)
Blk & Grn Linen Micarta----------------169.95 (Solid Pins)
Blaze Orange G-10--------------------169.95 (Solid Pins)
Blue Glow G-10-----------------------169.95 (Solid Pins)
Antique Ivory Micarta-----------------184.95 (Mosaic Pins)
Amboynia Burl------------------------199.95 (Mosaic Pins)

Ref: http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=2500


IF the Heat treat an steel are solid, and the knife was put together right, it has the possibility of being a good knife for sure.

Cliff,
Before you look into this knife you may want to reseach comments made by Bark River's designers and testers about you on various forum, especially KFC. . . I think you may be "pre-banned" on thier forums. . . They also expressly do not support comparison testing, see various comments made on KFC for examples.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Grind looks full convex.

I want to know the profile, thickness in steps back from the edge. I have asked several times.

... it has the possibility of being a good knife for sure.

That style of knife is hell for demanding, it has the length and weight to generate tremendous power on the cut.

The above reviews were mainly on wood that was too large to exert any serious stress on a blade, so they would not determine any faults in the steel or grind, you can cut that all day with a hollow ground Hibben fantasy knife (I have, the Highlander bowie if anyone is curious).

I want to know what will happen during cutting smaller hard woods which isn't performed with surgical precision (cut individual limbs at ~45 degrees). What happens if you plow the edge into something hard at full force. How does the blade take lateral failure, how wide is the pastic region?

Can you work in knotty woods, can you twist/work the blade in deep woods to clear it. Does it actually cut any better than a 12" barteaux with a proper edge profile. Is it more fluid, is the edge any more durable? How does it compared to a Valiant which is much cheaper. How about a slim Kobra from HI.

...you may want to reseach comments made by Bark River's designers and testers about you ...

People send me these from time to time, I think they are pretty amusing. I keep meaning to assemble a "roast" page when I get the time.

They also expressly do not support comparison testing ...

That should really give the consumer faith in the product.

"We have an outstanding product, as long as you don't compare it to other products of its kind we are sure you will be very impressed with it."

-Cliff

 

[kamkazmoto]

I wonder how it compares to the Valiant Goloks http://www.valiantco.com/ ?

 

[t1mpani]

I wonder how it compares to the Valiant Goloks http://www.valiantco.com/ ?

I don't own a BRKT golok, but I do own a few from Valiant, and I'll say that BRKT would definitely have their plate full if they wanted to surpass the cutting ability of the Valiants. All my goloks came sharper than most knives--and with the weight of 3/16" to 1/4" starting spine thicknesses you have to exercise extra care when using them not to remove one your own limbs.

I agree overall that 5160 is a better steel for this than A2, but I guess it depends on how hard the BRKTs run.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...BRKT would definitely have their plate full if they wanted to surpass the cutting ability of the Valiants.

You would have to have very extreme faith in your steel to grind it thinner than the Valiant goloks. I don't even really think that is possible. They use decent spring steel, and when that is hardened right it is very difficult to outperform directly in regards to strength/toughness. What I would aim for instead is the same grind but to a much higher consistency. Last I checked the Valiants were a lot cheaper, so you better be giving the customers something for their money.

-Cliff

 

[Melvin-Purvis]

Cliff, et al.

I've had the chance to work with Mike Stewart, owner of Bark River Knife & Tool http://www.barkriverknifetool.com/ over the course of the last few years, both as a resource for published knife articles in Knife World Magazine, and as a reseller of BRK&T products on occasion. Over the course of the years, ours has also become relationship of friendship. I note that fact not because I don't want the following to seem without bias, but simply to put what I'm about to say in proper context...

My friendship with Mike, and the whole BRK&T team, has come about solely due to their professionalism, willingness to share information, and very open attitude towards explaining the 'working science' behind their products. In addition, it's been my experience that their door has been open to any and all individuals with a genuine interest in their products, with no sincere question having gone unanswered.

Therefore, my comments here Cliff, directed primarily towards you, or anyone else with similar concerns, is to simply pick up the phone and call Mike at the number provided on the website link provided above. Shy of that buddy, you're just blowing smoke...

Sheldon Wickersham

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... is to simply pick up the phone and call Mike at the number provided on the website link provided above.

There are two main reasons why I don't do this in regards to performance questions. First of all, it costs a fair bit of money to call long distance from Canada to the US, and it seems unreasonable to demand a customer do so when the makers run a public forum.

Second, there is a huge difference in making a public statement on an open forum and saying something in a private concersation. If you are unwilling to make a performance statement in public then it is meaningless.This should be fairly obvious.

I have asked him performance questions directly on his forum and there was no information given, not only were the questions unanswered I was personally attacked for simple asking them.

-Cliff

 

[Vampire Hunter D]

Really. I'm interested in the golok, both because it's relatively new to me and it seems to be ideal to my new enviroment.

I've heard mostly good things about BRKT products from the people that use them, but I would like to see a more organized test of the blade. By anyone. And it's a very good looking blade too.

My main question is, Why should I spend the extra money on a BRKT instead of a Valiant? What does the knife have to offer?

After reading I can understand Mike Stewart's viewpoint on comparison testing. And honestly I tend to just look at individual knife results myself. I would quote but sometimes folks get touchy about cross forum quoting, that's the same reason I won't link. But if you search for a thread titled, You gotta be kidding me, check out this BS, you will find it.
Unfortunatly Mike Stewart has said in the same post on Knifeforums that he doesn't intend to be a member here. So I'll stay subscribed and see what happens.

- D

Edited for easier reading.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Why should I spend the extra money on a BRKT instead of a Valiant?

It is kind of difficult to answer this question without comparing the two knives obviously so it seems odd you would ask this and then not want people to do comparisons of the blades in reviews.

Anyway, there were three problems reported with the Valiant Goloks :

-scallops in the edge due to forging hollows
-problems with heat treating, a short hardening length specifically
-handle cracking

The BRKT should be able to solve all of these problems, it is just a QC issue.

-Cliff

 

[knifetester]

The Valiant Goloks are a really nice product if you get a good one. Being made in villages and sent to Valiant, there is not a great deal of consistency in heat treat though.

Please note that my comments in regards to BRKT jheat treat is based SOLEY on accounts I read from other people's posts or had people relay to me in conversations, basically 2nd, #rd, 4th hand stuff. I have never used a Bark river Golok, so please take those comments with a very large grain of salt. As always, there are two sides to every story, and there are hundreds of posts on forums prasing BRKT heat treat and the toughness of their steel. Some people have been VERY unhappy with the customer service (see posts on British Blades re: Sheath issues for example) while others have praised it.

I think their is universal agreement on edge quality, the knives come with very sharp edges.

Would I buy one? Probably not. Would I buy a couple Valiant Goloks for the same price? In a heart beat. They have a hundred models I want to try!

 

[rturbo]

I'll second the thought on quality control issues.

I recently ordered one of the 1880 bowies with the leather/stag bone handle. Was really excited about owning one but ended up returning it - the sheath literally looked like it had been sewn from scrap and run over in the parking lot. The handle construction was nothing to write home about either.

I do have a couple of the other models (mikro, fox river) I use a lot and like quite a bit. No doubt they come as sharp as anything else out there.

All in all it's a good inexpensive knife if you don't mind having to get another sheath made for it.

Thanks.

 

[Gramps]

The Valiant Goloks are a really nice product if you get a good one. Being made in villages and sent to Valiant, there is not a great deal of consistency in heat treat though.

Please note that my comments in regards to BRKT jheat treat is based SOLEY on accounts I read from other people's posts or had people relay to me in conversations, basically 2nd, #rd, 4th hand stuff. I have never used a Bark river Golok, so please take those comments with a very large grain of salt. As always, there are two sides to every story, and there are hundreds of posts on forums prasing BRKT heat treat and the toughness of their steel. Some people have been VERY unhappy with the customer service (see posts on British Blades re: Sheath issues for example) while others have praised it.

I think their is universal agreement on edge quality, the knives come with very sharp edges.

Would I buy one? Probably not. Would I buy a couple Valiant Goloks for the same price? In a heart beat. They have a hundred models I want to try!

So...basically you are repeating rumors about BRKT's heat treat and have not handled or tested their Golak...I believe you sir, lack credibility. Shame on you for acussing a knife company of heat treat issuses without being able cite references ! May I suggest its your character sir, that has "heat treat" issues and is in need of some "reprofiling" ! :thumbdn:

 

[Cliff Stamp]

basically you are repeating rumors

A rumor is when you don't know the source as in "Someone said XXX is prone to YYY." It is information which can't be verfied as there is no idea where it came from.

When someone tells you "Yeah, I saw XXX knife do YYY." it isn't a rumor nor it is a rumor when you reference posts on a public forum, the information is there for anyone to read and evaluate.

Jim Aston has described to me details of performance about various axes which I have passed on to individuals who are interested, they probably passed this on as well. This isn't spreading rumors.

-Cliff

 

[Gramps]

A rumor is when you don't know the source as in "Someone said XXX is prone to YYY." It is information which can't be verfied as there is no idea where it came from.

When someone tells you "Yeah, I saw XXX knife do YYY." it isn't a rumor nor it is a rumor when you reference posts on a public forum, the information is there for anyone to read and evaluate.

Jim Aston has described to me details of performance about various axes which I have passed on to individuals who are interested, they probably passed this on as well. This isn't spreading rumors.

-Cliff

Apologist....I reject your obfuscation !

-regards

 

[knifetester]

So...basically you are repeating rumors about BRKT's heat treat and have not handled or tested their Golak...

Yeah, that is pretty much exactly what I did. If you consider user feedback rumors. . .

I believe you sir, lack credibility.

You sure wouldn't be the first.

However, it would probably be fair to distinguish betwwen my credibility and the veracity of the claims of HT problems. There is a reason I wrote that those claims should be taken with a grain of salt. They are hearsay, that is why I wrote that there have been reports of it, not that I observed it.

Shame on you for acussing a knife company of heat treat issuses without being able cite references !

I could go through the various forums and drag up every problem post about Bark River. Or you could do the same. Many forums ahve rules about cross linking and such, especialyt he private forums, so no I can not cite many of them. As well, some of the reports were in conversations.

Further, searching through the forums and compling a list of every complaint about Bark River would be a rather tedious and time consuming tasks. One I have neither the time nor the inclination to do.

If you are that interested, start seaching the forums yourself. You will find them out there. You will also find lots of positive posts about Bark River. You can decide for your self which to believe, maybe even both sides are true. That would be my guess.

May I suggest its your character sir, that has "heat treat" issues and is in need of some "reprofiling" !

I will keep that in mind. Thank you for the suggestion. Perhaps while I am offreprofiling my ill heat treated character, you could look into the reports of HT problems and quality control issues and report back with a compiled list since it means so much to you. That way we could both benefit from this interaction.

Have a nice day,
Knifetester

Edited to add:
Gramps:

Apologist....I reject your obfuscation !

Holy Cow, that is too funny. ROLTF. . . I missed that the first time through, and then when I read it I blew grape soda out of my nose. I am still laughing.

The supreme irony of that post just kills me. I hope you don't mind but I will be using it as my signature line. Heck, even if you do mind I am going to use it.

Thanks for the great laugh, it made this thread worthwhile.

 

[HCF]

RWS
If your happy with your current BR's I think you'll be happy with a Golok for around the yard an field. Handle options are nice along with the finish I've seen, its hard to beat the BRKT warrenty. I've used the Golok in the field to clear out stand locations of brush, limbs an saplings.