Bark Rvier Bravo 1 vs RAT RC4

S

soapboxpreacher

Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
955
I just received both Knives and these are my initial impressions.

RC4 has a thinner blade 0.1875", choil, flush thumb serrations and a fairly flat rough micarta handle. The Steel is 1095. The sheath (I did the molle back version) is kydex and condura. Weights 7.5 oz.

Bravo 1 has a much thicker blade 0.25", no choil and raised thumb serrations. The micarta handle is smooth with palm swells. It is A2 steel. The sheath is kydex. Weights 7.4 oz


Blade: Bravo seems without major use, is a much better grind for just about everything!!! Didnt think Convex would be that noticeable but the small things I did I noticed that I really like that grind over the RC4 flat!!! I thought the thicker Bravo would be limited initially...I was wrong...the grind more than makes up for it. With that said, I would think it would baton and chop better as well...being thicker. Raised thumb serrations are a love/hate IMHO for the bravo...I think the flat thumb serrations are a better design on the RC4. This portion of the blade category starts to spill over to the grip section as well. They (thumb serration on the bravo) are rough and can cut your thumb or hand up if you are not careful...not horrible however if you are lunging they are nice to have! Plus they help on maneuvering. But I do miss the choil...something the RC4 has but since the grind on the RC4 is not convex the benefits to the better choil are offset by the flat grind of the blade. I noticed this during some light curving. I had better control on finer carving on the Bravo over the RC4.

Grip: RC4 is really far more grippy because of the rough unfinished micarta. Doesnt slip around in the hand. The Bravo if it were more rough and unfinished would be better for it is contoured far better and the palm swells make it fit the hand well...but it is SLICK because of the smooth glossy finish on the micarta...why Bark River did this...I do not know. Makes it feel almost like a damn kitchen knife. As for Size. However it is a smaller grip than the Bravo 1. So if you have small-medium hands the RC4 will fit you well. Large and up the Bravo is a good fit. I am right in the middle.

Weight: Funny as it seems the Bravo 1 seems heavier and more sturdy. I feel like a could dig with it or pry without worry. Not that the RC4 is a weak in this category but the Bravo really is a TANK!

Sheath....ahhh...RC4 no competition!!! It can be mounted to damn near everything...Molle/Molle Back. It is really versatile! I like it! Bravo sheath is no where near it!

I will follow up with a field report once it stops raining around here on a weekend for once! But so far I like elements of both. However I am leaning towards the bravo....if I can figure out the micarta and how to roguh it up it will be (early estimates) one of my top blades. More to come. I will try and post some picks as well...maybe a movie on Utube if I get enough time.
 
I convexed the edge on my RC4. Now it cuts like a laser.

RC4 sheath system is fantastic! I set mine up for horizontal carry.
 
Nice review so far. A couple of suggestions on the Bravo, remove the handle gloss using a Scotch-brite pad with some powdered cleaner, Ajax, Comet, or similar. The difference in grip will amaze you. The thumb ramp can be removed, don't let that get in your way. They are both great knives and I would feel very comfortable relying on either one:)
 
soapboxpreacher said:
I just received both Knives and these are my initial impressions.

RC4 has a thinner blade 0.1875", choil, flush thumb serrations and a fairly flat rough micarta handle. The Steel is 1095. The sheath (I did the molle back version) is kydex and condura. Weights 7.5 oz.

Bravo 1 has a much thicker blade 0.25", no choil and raised thumb serrations. The micarta handle is smooth with palm swells. It is A2 steel. The sheath is kydex. Weights 7.4 oz


Blade: Bravo seems without major use, is a much better grind for just about everything!!! Didnt think Convex would be that noticeable but the small things I did I noticed that I really like that grind over the RC4 flat!!! I thought the thicker Bravo would be limited initially...I was wrong...the grind more than makes up for it. With that said, I would think it would baton and chop better as well...being thicker. Raised thumb serrations are a love/hate IMHO for the bravo...I think the flat thumb serrations are a better design on the RC4. This portion of the blade category starts to spill over to the grip section as well. They (thumb serration on the bravo) are rough and can cut your thumb or hand up if you are not careful...not horrible however if you are lunging they are nice to have! Plus they help on maneuvering. But I do miss the choil...something the RC4 has but since the grind on the RC4 is not convex the benefits to the better choil are offset by the flat grind of the blade. I noticed this during some light curving. I had better control on finer carving on the Bravo over the RC4.

Grip: RC4 is really far more grippy because of the rough unfinished micarta. Doesnt slip around in the hand. The Bravo if it were more rough and unfinished would be better for it is contoured far better and the palm swells make it fit the hand well...but it is SLICK because of the smooth glossy finish on the micarta...why Bark River did this...I do not know. Makes it feel almost like a damn kitchen knife. As for Size. However it is a smaller grip than the Bravo 1. So if you have small-medium hands the RC4 will fit you well. Large and up the Bravo is a good fit. I am right in the middle.

Weight: Funny as it seems the Bravo 1 seems heavier and more sturdy. I feel like a could dig with it or pry without worry. Not that the RC4 is a weak in this category but the Bravo really is a TANK!

Sheath....ahhh...RC4 no competition!!! It can be mounted to damn near everything...Molle/Molle Back. It is really versatile! I like it! Bravo sheath is no where near it!

I will follow up with a field report once it stops raining around here on a weekend for once! But so far I like elements of both. However I am leaning towards the bravo....if I can figure out the micarta and how to roguh it up it will be (early estimates) one of my top blades. More to come. I will try and post some picks as well...maybe a movie on Utube if I get enough time.
Click to expand...

Smooth down the choil/thumb serrations on the one you like best.
 
IUKE12 said:
Nice review so far. A couple of suggestions on the Bravo, remove the handle gloss using a Scotch-brite pad with some powdered cleaner, Ajax, Comet, or similar. The difference in grip will amaze you. The thumb ramp can be removed, don't let that get in your way. They are both great knives and I would feel very comfortable relying on either one:)
Click to expand...

Sound like a great idea! The Bravo is just so darn nice...not that RC4 isnt but the Bravo is really a tank...considering there is no weight different I would trust the Bravo more if it was my only knife in a really bad situation if I had to choose between the 2...the blade thickness alone is a sleep easier feeling. If I can get the grip just right I am in heaven!. I could grind down the raised thumb serration and make them flush thumb serration like on the RC4 which I do like. They are very nice and do not get in the way. Sounds like I am not the only one that doesnt like the smooth grip and raised thumb serrations.

As someone else has said the RC4 sheath is really kick ass!!!

I think I am going to design a custom for someone to build me as well. See if JK can make a design for me. I have a great on in mind!!!! Combinations of all the things I like and nothing I dont. My summer project.
 
wildmike said:
I convexed the edge on my RC4. Now it cuts like a laser.
RC4 sheath system is fantastic! I set mine up for horizontal carry.
Click to expand...

Ditto :thumbup:

And yes, great review, thanks for sharing.

Kevin

DSCN1239.jpg
 
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As far as the grip, I've found that a "grippier" knife creates more hotspots in prolonged use.

But, it's not a huge deal.

Both great knives in my opinion, and both get carry time, but I prefer the Bravo-1.
 
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I couldn't justify the extra $$ for the Bravo-1 so I'm living with the RC-4 and life is good. ;)
 
soapboxpreacher said:
you can find them for under 150 if you look. The RC4 is 109.
Click to expand...

I got my basic ESEE4 for bout 90 shipped! Leave me a VM or Email if you want to know where to look for this price!

Dag-nabit said:
DSCN1239.jpg
Click to expand...

Every time I see a picture of your convexed RC4, I get so jealous, the only problem I see with it is, it looks like the tip is rounded.
SO, back on topic, I have a RC4 and love it to death, and have another BRKT knife(not a bravo) and I love it, but I think the RAT is my favorite! Hope this helps!
 
Nice review.

I have both knives, and agree with most of your review.

I actually prefer the Bravo grip after using it. I did wash it really good.
 
Sargent 666 said:
The notches on the B1 ramp are for striking a fire steel not your thumb. Your thumb should be placed in front of the ramp when notching. http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/872330/ Scroll down the page to see how it is intended to be used.

The scales are buffed smooth to keep abrasion down under long hard use.
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As much as I understand the design I should have gotten the rampless. It suits my needs better. A grip style for certain task is subjective and preferential. I find comfort in sometimes different holds...but never endangering my hand or fingers. Now, using it as a combat knife...even though this knife possesses no guard nor is considered a combat/tactical blade...when lunging or using a stabbing motion the ramp is useful for leverage as well as reducing the chance of slippage. Also if you hand is wet...I certainly would not want my hand to slip...the ramp might save the insides of my fingers...especially since there is no choil and many of the bark river handles are extremely smooth...a mistake in my opinion. But I do like more cutting surface (so the choil is not overly missed) and certainly understand the design. It is not a combat knife nor would I use it as one. But if you need it the ramps will certain improve tactics in a combat situation if it were life or death. Once again just my $0.02 based on my initial reasons.
 
soapboxpreacher said:
As much as I understand the design I should have gotten the rampless. It suits my needs better. A grip style for certain task is subjective and preferential. I find comfort in sometimes different holds...but never endangering my hand or fingers. Now, using it as a combat knife...even though this knife possesses no guard nor is considered a combat/tactical blade...when lunging or using a stabbing motion the ramp is useful for leverage as well as reducing the chance of slippage. Also if you hand is wet...I certainly would not want my hand to slip...the ramp might save the insides of my fingers...especially since there is no choil and many of the bark river handles are extremely smooth...a mistake in my opinion. But I do like more cutting surface (so the choil is not overly missed) and certainly understand the design. It is not a combat knife nor would I use it as one. But if you need it the ramps will certain improve tactics in a combat situation if it were life or death. Once again just my $0.02 based on my initial reasons.
Click to expand...


I know what you are saying... The Bravo 1 is more a survival knife, than a combat knife. However, since it was developed for the Force Recon folks, I think combat/tactical use is very much a potential requirement for this knife and factors into the design of blade.

On the Ramp vs. Rampless question. Here is a quote from Mike Stewart:

Quote:
Guess it's my turn.

The Ramp on the B-1 was not my idea.

It was the Force Recon Folks.

The size of the Ramp and it's placement were totally mine.

I know what they needed it for and what they didn't need it for and put it right where it needed to be for them to have a key place for bearing down on the most powerful place on that blade for notching or starting a cut.

Let me be perfectly clear on a point.

I never like a ramp to put my Thumb against on the handle side.

I also do not like jimping on a Spine.

I don't like or need either and find both to have more disadvantages than advantages.

Regardless - The B-1 had to have it.

The B-2 needed it too because it was for the same folks.(Remember - Same overall size as a USMC Utility/Fighter)

The Gunny was also for the same folks and needed to ramp for all the same reasons.(A more Compact Version of the Same Knife)

We as civilians that practice the skill of hunting or bushcraft probably don't need the ramp on any of these models.(Not that it hurts it have it there)

There is no way I am going to make them without the ramp.

As we have done for some - we are happy to remove it or let any of you remove it without effecting the Warranty.

That Small Ramp is only in the way if you think you need to lay your finger on the Spine or put your thumb behind it for something.

I don't know what that something is but if it bothers you - either take the ramp off or send it in and we will do it for you.

The B-1,B-2 and Gunny are Great sellers in our overall line.

I think that sometimes we all forget who they are actually for.

It ain't us.

One of the things that makes us kind of unique is that all of us are not afraid to personalize our Gear.

I not only don't mind it - I encourage it.

All of us work better with gear that we haev made our own.

I think that makes us special and is more of a unifying factor than a dividing factor for all of us.

We modify stuff for folks and many times I just don't understand why but we usually do it.

I think that the level of personal touch is not the norm in the world today but for us - it is the norm.

The last thing we need to do here is to argue about it.

Lets all agree that with or without the ramp - These are some pretty interesting knives and way more popular than any of us here ever thought they would be.

That is probably a Good Thing.
End Quote

Kevin
 
My $.02 cents on the handle grips.

I have the RAT RC4 and a Bravo 2 which is larger than the Bravo 1, but pretty much the same basic design. (I also have the smaller sibling, the Gunny)

I admit I have not used any of them in a pouring rain, or used them to dress game where the handle could be covered in blood, but, I have used them on hot days with sweaty palms and have had not "slip" issues with either knife.

Despite the smooth finish on the Bravo series handles I find the shape and ergononmic design of the handle provides good grip, even with wet hands.

The RC4 also grips well with it's rough finish despite the relatively unrefined ergonomics of the handle.

My preference for handle comfort leans strongly toward the Bravo series. I find the square, block like, slabs on the RC4 to be somewhat uncomfortable in my hand. This is strictly a personal preference, and I want to be clear, I'm not knocking the RC4, it is a great knife in all respects, it just doesn't fit my hand as well as other knives do.

As far as handle slipping goes, I haven't had any problems with the Bravo's or the RAT.

Kevin
 
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soapboxpreacher said:
You dont mind breaking down the "wash" process. I want to do this right.
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You're looking to knock off the luster or high polish. You can take baby steps by simply washing the handle thoroughly with dish soap and a kitchen sponge. Try it and if you need to knock off more, throw a little cleaner into the mix as mentioned earlier. You will end up with a matte finish micarta handle without altering the shape.
 
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