Bartender , another round please .

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O:K: so we dropped the dime on "Billy the Kids" "Keep the Change " round .

Other modifications have been done to supposedly improve on Mother Nature
Or in this case Mr. Winchester . Good old rock salt and bacon rind , rusty bent nails and sundry other items have been used to replace the innards of a shotgun shell .

I have heard of a shotshell being scored near the bottom so the entire shell (sans brass) would come out as a whole and perform somewhat like a solid slug .
Let me stress I have only heard of this and know nothing of its advisability or even its feasability .

Does anyone know of any other modifications that have been tried out with success ?
 
Flechettes come to mind:

link deleted

These flechettes will (they say) go through body armor. I picure using a sabot to make a high-vel single large flachette round with like, a gutter spike or something.
___

Some other "good" ideas: whistles, rubber bucksthot, etc.

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__18/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html

I own a blackpowder shotgun, so.

On a related note, the Fourth of July is coming. Discharging firearms in the air is for idiots, but if it's blackpowder without a projectile....


Mike
 
What Mike said. There are numerous specialty projectiles available for shotguns. Some are more, erm, effective than others.

BTW, we used to do the shotshell scoring trick back in the navy when we wanted slugs but were issued buckshot. The trick is to hold the shotshell up to a strong light (the sun works) so that you can see where the shot charge and shot cup are. Make your incisions immediately below that. You'll need to very nearly cut the thing off in order for it to actually seperate upon firing. Don't expect phenomenal accuracy with such a projectile.

I should mention that this isn't really a good idea for any number of reasons but we never had a problem with it.
 
Well, when I was a 13-14 yo kid on the farm, I loaded up my 12guage shells with black powder. I loved the huge cloud of blue-black smoke and the sound seemed different. Wonderful smell!

My 1897 Pump that Dad bought for $35 digested them quite well. I knew enough to clean the gun very well afterwards because I heard the powder was corrosive.

I am still playing with black powder. Have a couple of old swivel cannons from Borneo that I use a light charge (no projectile) and set it off on July 4th and New Years. I figure there are so many fireworks that the cops could not possibly notice.

These cannons were used by Moro and Malay Pirates. They would fill the gun with nails, gravel, sea shells, anything they could think of. Mounted on the rail of their ship, it would overlook their prey. A few of these acting like giant shotguns would clear the decks and make way for boarding parties.

They were usually cast in Borneo because there were large deposits of copper and tin. Also good craftsmen to make them.

The bronze cannons were superior to iron in that they did not explode into shrapnel like an iron cannon. They would just split if overcharged. They were about 3x as expensive to make however.

The major drawback in later cannon technology was that rifling the bore did not work in bronze cannons. The metal was too soft, so iron rifled cannons became the order of the day.

Pictures of my Seahorse cannon (carrying handles) about 50 inches long. Apologies for the picture quality. Need to take it outside where I don't need to use flash. Will take some more pix on July 4th!

BOOM!
 
I have a reproduction Brown Bess flintlock musket, .75 cal. smoothbore, which is basically a 12 gauge shotgun. Yes, we shoot this off with blank charges on the 4th. You can add to the pyrotechnics by putting a wad of steel wool on top of the blank charge for a more orange discharge. Copper or magnesium wool or shavings, if you can find them, table salt, potassium permanganate, will give other colors. They don't explode, they just burn pretty. A basic blank charge of 80-100 grains of black powder is sufficient.
 
Now that I think about it, there was another unauthorized shotshell modification that we tried a few times.

When we'd do shoots out at Ft. Lewis, the range that we used was also used for less-than-lethal shotgun shoots. We'd find these rubber projectiles all over the place, the kind that looks sort of like a blunt dirigible with stabilizing fins on the back. After we grew bored with throwing them at one another we came up with an idea: why not pop the crimp on some 00 buck, dump out the shot and jam one of these puppies in there?

It worked, sort of. Even with everything stripped out except for the powder and the wad over it, the projectiles were just a bit too long to recrimp properly so there were some issues with chambering -- it took a firm hand to get those Mossbergs into battery with a cartridge that long. Some preliminary testing showed that the powder wasn't burning right (insufficient pressure, most likely) but those rubber projectiles flew straight and hit hard enough to dent vehicles and punch holes through plywood targetbacks at 25 yards.

Another bit of fun occurred after the DoE borrowed our range for a few weeks. They were training with MILES gear and had a lot of blank ammunition left over which they turned in to us for disposal. Merely capping blanks off (even outside the LPO's office window while he was trying to nap) ceased to be fun after a while. We found that a large wad of toilet paper, soaked with water and rammed down a shotgun's muzzle with a cleaning rod and seated over a blank, turned the shotgun into what may very well be the most powerful spitball launcher the world had ever seen. As these "spitballs" would crack cedar shingles at 10 yards (about the limit of its effective range, due to inaccuracy) its utility was probably fairly limited. We did some experimenting to try to come up with a more accurate projectile but it never did pan out.

While not shotgun-related, there were some unauthorized cartridge modifications performed during my last few deployments. We had an issue with smaller ships not wanting to get close enough to receive our shotlines during UNREPs. The book states a maximum range of 95 yards; a knowledgeable shooter with the right wind could probably go out a bit past 100. Some of these ships wouldn't get within 150 yards. After a few missed shots they'd complain, our captain would complain, threats would be made, feathers would be ruffled, and the ship would finally get close enough. After getting yelled at enough times we got tired of it and began modifying our 7.62mm grenade launching cartridges into an "extended range" format. (Procedure: pop the crimps on two cartridges, empty half of one into the other, recrimp it, and pray.) This solved the problem. It was rather rough on the shooter's shoulder and probably the rifles as well. It's a testament to God's love of fools and the durability of the M14 that no one was injured and no rifles were destroyed by this.

Later, we came up with a design for a .50 BMG line throwing system on paper utilizing some trickery, pulled down ball ammo, and an M2. This didn't go over too well with the chain of command and it never went past the idea stage. (It probably would have worked, but I wouldn't have shot it personally. Maybe with a lanyard from cover, but certainly not standing behind it.) Our idea for a 25mm linethrowing kit ("Half mile UNREPs" was our motto) didn't pan out either. :o The idea about fixing a shotline to a Sea Sparrow was pure idiocy but it reflected our aggravation with the situation and, with strong enough shotline, it theoretically would have worked.

Along the same lines, we discovered that a beverage can fits nearly perfectly into a shotcup for launching shotlines; a slathering of silicon grease on the outside tightened it right up and made an airtight seal. At nearly the same time we figured out why there's a metal pusher plate in the base of the rubber projectiles: a 7.62mm grenade launching cartridge hits damned hard, harder than an aluminum can could take. That incident was later referred to as the Soda Shotgun.

There was also the CO2 canister mortar that the HT's assembled but as that wasn't a powder burner it won't be discussed here. It was pretty damned cool though. (Get it? CO2 = cool? Nevermind.)
 
tedwca said:
Bill,

Is that a Sphinx behind the cannon? That looks really cool


Thanks! I really like them also.

Got a pair of them from a bed and breakfast that was remodeling in South Carolina.

I buy various things for resale. Have gotten fond of these and plan to keep them. They were originally cast in the middle 1950s in Thailand. When I get further along with our grounds (need a little cash infusion) I will put them outside. Want to build concrete and stone low platforms for them.

The first picture shows the color of the bronze. The other pictures I took with some large metal halide fixtures going in my shop area. They show very well how much dust quickly accumulates in an old warehouse.
 
Dave thanks for the laughs! I really enjoyed your post about Navy un-authorized mods:thumbup: :D :cool:
 
I've got an old Mossberg bolt action 20 gauge that I cut the shot shells nearly in two for use as slugs one year when I first went deer hunting. I put a flash hider and front sight on the muzzle end and then cut a slot in another rear sight and tapped it in place. This is one of the old Mossbergs with the choke that screws on or off the end of the barrel and of course I took the choke off. It worked reasonably well and would've been perfectly suitable for deer at the range I would've been shooting at here in the thick Okie woods.
 
You see, Kevin? The thing about cutting up shotshells into poor man's slugs wasn't bunk after all. I'm sure that you'll hear about more people doing it eventually. I was quite surprised that it worked, but it does work.

As for the fun that I had in the navy, I would've had more fun with one of Bill's swivel guns. (Those things rock.) It's my dream to own such a thing eventually -- not today, not tomorrow, but eventually. As a former sailor I'd prefer it in brass but iron (or steel) would work. The rating badge for Gunner's Mate consists of two crossed cannons. It's a subject near and dear to my heart.

I wouldn't mention this on most forums but now that I think about it, another bit of 12 gauge foolishness that I've seen consisted of fashioning a funnel of paper, taping it to the business end of a shotshell, gluing a steel BB to the primer, and lobbing it high into the air over a hard surface. Between the drag of the funnel and the shift in center of balance the shotshell will almost always land on the BB.

Do not do this. It actually works sometimes. While the shot and casing fragments don't leave with much velocity they'll still put out an eye at a good distance and there's no telling where they'll go.

I'm veering here but probably the most embarrassing and frustrating firearms-related experiment that I was ever party to (in the navy, anyway) occurred after my A-gunner and I watched a documentary on WWII and heard a vet talking about how they'd disassembled the buffers on their M2's, replaced the felt washers with quarters and ramped up the rate of fire to unbelievable levels.

Hmmm...we had quarters and an M2. It had a buffer assembly. Why not?

Long story short: I don't know if the guy was lying or they were just using a different buffer assembly during WWII, but our buffer didn't have any washers in it, felt or otherwise. It had a big frigging spring that was stiff enough for a vehicle's suspension and needed to be compressed considerably to get everything back together. I'm sure that it wasn't much trouble to put one together at Crane (where they doubtless had the necessary tools and jigs) but it wasn't so easy in the middle of the Pacific. To make matters worse, we had no spare buffers. (Fortunately, we'd checked on that before pitching the parts over the side, which was the original plan.)

We got it back together in the end using a stack of pallets, two screwdrivers and a 5-lb. sledge. We tore our hands up badly enough in the process that we both had to go to the infirmary afterwards. Ma Deuce ran fine afterwards and all was right in the world.

The moral of the story: mess not with the works of John Moses Browning, lest ye be pwned. If John had thought that quarters in the buffer were a good idea, it would've come from the damned factory like that. I haven't tinkered with one of his creations since.
 
Ok, Ok, OK....a plan is coming together here....

We got a Pirate, Thumbcutter Goodbeard, right?

We got an ordanance guy, Dave Rishar, right? We got a machinist in Yvsa.

We got cannons, right? from The Collector Marsh (who is kind enough to show up his neat stuff...thanks, Bill...it is really neat to see some of your treasures. Keep 'em coming, please.)

We got AdAstra, who has weathered ugly storms and can be our meteorologist.

We could be pirates! Right? Well, some of us.

We need suggestions of the right ship size...motor yacht or retired war ship.

We got some guys with expertise with A-10 stuff, I think (right, Sarge?), so maybe some 30mm cannons, and some of the other toys...from them.

Then, we plan this sucker out...picking our prey nations and ships... and the distribution of booty.

What is maritime law on piracy? Does every nation jump in, or just the offended one?

I'm looking for suggestions here...constructive suggestions, if you please.
 
There was an aircraft carrier for sale on Ebay a while back.

(No, I'm not kidding.)

I didn't have the cash but they weren't selling it for much more than scrap value. A guy could mount a lot of swivel guns on a flat top and all that deck space makes "steel beach" gatherings much easier to organize.

I'm just saying to think big, is all.
 
Kismet said:
Ok, Ok, OK....a plan is coming together here....

We got a Pirate, Thumbcutter Goodbeard, right?

We got an ordanance guy, Dave Rishar, right? We got a machinist in Yvsa.

We got cannons, right? from The Collector Marsh (who is kind enough to show up his neat stuff...thanks, Bill...it is really neat to see some of your treasures. Keep 'em coming, please.)

We got AdAstra, who has weathered ugly storms and can be our meteorologist.

We could be pirates! Right? Well, some of us.

We need suggestions of the right ship size...motor yacht or retired war ship.

We got some guys with expertise with A-10 stuff, I think (right, Sarge?), so maybe some 30mm cannons, and some of the other toys...from them.

Then, we plan this sucker out...picking our prey nations and ships... and the distribution of booty.

What is maritime law on piracy? Does every nation jump in, or just the offended one?

I'm looking for suggestions here...constructive suggestions, if you please.


Hmmm, interesting idea! The "Cantina Pirates!"

I have been thinking about painting the flat roof of our warehouse home blue and building a deck up there shaped like a Moro prao pirate boat in the water.

They weren't all that big. Maybe 30-40 feet long. A short mast and a bright winged sail to shade uis from the sun. A spiral stair coming up from inside the warehouse.

We could all meet up there after the 2007 Blade Show and hoist a few!

Nordic Viking could provide the wait staff. You left that out Kis, we need a few waitresses. Yellow and blue look good to me. I vote to make those colors official Cantina.

It could work. Plunder and booty me lads!

Boom!
 
As usual you guys come through with flying colors . Who cares if its a pirate flag . Honestly I saw a shotgun with the plastic of the shell melted and deformed so bad it took a cleaning rod to get it out . I always suspected the guy had tried to make a slug round . I have my side by side and my Mossberg bolt action with the screw on choke same as Yvsa,s . Made in Montreal B:T:W: my home town .

I doubt if I will be trying any of the fun stuff I read of here . There are a couple that are mighty tempting . I just might get me a pack of those whistle rounds . I would like to try that dragon fire . I don,t know exactly how I could get it to me though . It can,t be that hard to make ?
 
In the days when 12 gauge were made of cardboard, I used to open the crimp and remove the cardboard disc. Then I would hot pour molten candle wax on to the shot and reseal. In the UK, Boar Slugs (solid shotgun projectiles) were illegal unless you had a firearms certificate for a rifle. The candle wax held most of the shot as one lump, but in these days, I guess you could use a tube of Superglue (Crazy Glue). The recoil wasn't much fun though!
 
the coast guard figured out the line throwing thing 200 years ago, leave it to the navy to have lost the plot.
lyle.jpg

Lyle Gun, range 700yds, see Linky
they also make neat additions to the average SPV
(small pirate vessel)
 
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