Baryonyx Manticore

[Baron Mind]

I just received my new Baryonyx Manticore in the mail. I immediately tore it open and threw it in the soaker. I ordered this stone for the sole purpose of thinning out primary grinds.

After a quick soak in my water/dish soap/oil/windex concoction, in it went to the stone holder, and I resumed thinning my Ruike p801.

The stone is very hard, and produces almost no slurry. I don't know if it will shed grit fast enough on it's own, or if dressing the surface on a regular basis will be necessary. I think it performs more like an oil stone than a water stone. I would consider it a hybrid. I'll be keeping an eye on this feature going forward.

The stone is a little less aggressive/coarse than I was hoping for. That being said, my Hope's were probably just unrealistic. It definitely is coarser/cuts deeper than the stone I was using previously, a traditional 120 grit naniwa waterstone. The way it cuts reminds me more of an extra coarse DMT than any waterstone, deep, clean, shiny scratches.

I've got the knife measuring around 18 thousandths bte, on a 24-26 degree inclusive edge. I'm sharpening the edge now, and one I dull it on use, I will do some more thinning.

First impression, for an ultracoarse stone, the Manticore is a great value. I love to see an American abrasives manufacturer thinking outside the box and trying new things. Combining black and green SiC in the same stone is very cool.

I'll report back after some more use, I can't wait to try their black magic honing plate. I'd love to see that in a 1x6, but I'd even prefer a 1x4 or 2x4. The way I sharpen, a 4x4 will be a little awkward. Very intriguing product though.

EDIT: After some more use with this stone, I felt I should come give an update here. Unfortunately, to me, this stone seems to struggle with harder steels. I tried thinning a blade in CruWear tonight and ended just using diamond plates instead. It did pretty well on my 12c27 kitchen knives, but I don't know that I'd recommend it for modern folder steels. I'm not unhappy with the purchase as it was pretty inexpensive, but that's where I'm at.

 

[DaveDM]

I've got the knife measuring around 18 thousandths bte, on a 24-26 degree inclusive edge.



I'll report back after some more use, I can't wait to try their black magic honing plate. I'd love to see that in a 1x6, but I'd even prefer a 1x4 or 2x4. The way I sharpen, a 4x4 will be a little awkward. Very intriguing product though.

What was the starting thickness behind the edge? Approx time taken ?

 

[bikerector]

I think I have the mutt stone, which is pretty similar in the budget minded and aggressive nature. It's pretty awesome. I don't think there's a substitute for either time at the bench stone or using some power to quickly take off material, though the aggressive ones do help a bit. My experience has been that the really aggressive stones build up swarf so fast that I seem to spend almost as much time cleaning off the stone as I save from using the more aggressive grit, to a point at least. I think that only applies in the "aggressive" versus "very aggressive" levels. Fine to aggressive sharpening rates, big difference.

I use the mutt puck as a field sharpener for machetes and axes and I struggle to keep the swarf off the stone. I carry it in a plastic pouch with water and rages and that has helped, but it takes off so much material that I think I really need a bigger water holder. It may be dirt and crud getting in there, I haven't quite worked out the system.

Side thought, how much pressure did you use when sharpening? The description for the American mutt stone references using heavy pressure, but I don't see details on how much pressure to use for the manticore.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The Manticore will feel a little slick at first because the grains are so large that the broad crystal faces end up aligning with the surface during pressing in the mold. Try scratching up the surface a little with the point of a nail to help break it in a little and you'll quickly find it that once it settles into its true coarse texture that it hogs off metal about as fast as a fine-cut file does.

 

[Baron Mind]

The Manticore will feel a little slick at first because the grains are so large that the broad crystal faces end up aligning with the surface during pressing in the mold. Try scratching up the surface a little with the point of a nail to help break it in a little and you'll quickly find it that once it settles into its true coarse texture that it hogs off metal about as fast as a fine-cut file does.

Ok, thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely give it a try and check back in here

 

[Baron Mind]

What was the starting thickness behind the edge? Approx time taken ?

I didn't have my calipers when I started this little project. If I had to guess I'd say it was around .0026.

I've been working it on multiple short sessions. Probably at 2 or 3 hours total. A belt sander is the proper tool for this job, but it's not feasible for me ATM, and I find doing it on stones to be rather enjoyable.

 

[MtnHawk1]

Apologies for being a bit off-topic, but I've wondered about this for awhile.

Which stone hogs off metal the fastest, the Manticore or American Mutt?

Thank you....

 

[mycough]

The manticore should remove stock quicker than the mutt.

Russ

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Definitely the Manticore. Almost as fast as a fine cut file.

 

[MtnHawk1]

mycough and FortyTwoBlades, thank you! I figured from the descriptions that was the case but wanted to be sure.

The Manticore will feel a little slick at first because the grains are so large that the broad crystal faces end up aligning with the surface during pressing in the mold. Try scratching up the surface a little with the point of a nail to help break it in a little and you'll quickly find it that once it settles into its true coarse texture that it hogs off metal about as fast as a fine-cut file does.

Thanks for the good tip. I'll remember that!

 

[bikerector]

Definitely the Manticore. Almost as fast as a fine cut file.

I'll have to get one of those. I like the American mutt puck I have but there's been a few times where resetting an edge on a mower blade or machete would be nice with something better suited to the bench. The mutt puck has been a nice field tool for roughing out dents on chopping tools when doing trail clearing.

 

[MtnHawk1]

Does anyone know if Baryonyx might make their Manticore stones in smaller sizes, like some of their other stones? I like the ability to remove metal faster than higher grit stones, but Manticore sizes available now are too large and heavy to carry on wilderness trips, and I'd like a smaller one to keep in my truck, too.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

Does anyone know if Baryonyx might make their Manticore stones in smaller sizes, like some of their other stones? I like the ability to remove metal faster than higher grit stones, but Manticore sizes available now are too large and heavy to carry on wilderness trips, and I'd like a smaller one to keep in my truck, too.

I'm not sure if they make a smaller manticore rectangular stone but I think they offer the manticore in a scythe stone and an abrasive file (the term their site uses) ... it is a rectangular stone with rounded edge on at least one side ... to be used more on curvatures but it could be used for anything ...

you should check out the site ... I'm think he is a supporting dealer but since I'm not positive I won't post the site ...

but just search artic fox stones and it should bring up results for his site with all of the stones listed.

And you may consider the Artic Fox field stone it's smaller and a nice combo stone.

 

[bikerector]

Does anyone know if Baryonyx might make their Manticore stones in smaller sizes, like some of their other stones? I like the ability to remove metal faster than higher grit stones, but Manticore sizes available now are too large and heavy to carry on wilderness trips, and I'd like a smaller one to keep in my truck, too.

Try the manticore file or drop down a grit to the mutt puck, which still removes material quickly.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

M MtnHawk1 ... I checked to be sure and here is a link to his website page with his stones ... hope it helps ...

http://www.baryonyxknife.com/bprshst.html

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Does anyone know if Baryonyx might make their Manticore stones in smaller sizes, like some of their other stones? I like the ability to remove metal faster than higher grit stones, but Manticore sizes available now are too large and heavy to carry on wilderness trips, and I'd like a smaller one to keep in my truck, too.

We'll offer some other sizes/shapes in time, but for the job that a stone this coarse is intended to do, it does help to have a certain amount of stroke length to it. Scythe stones are pretty pack-friendly, and I keep a few in my car at all times, too. I actually consider them one of the most versatile of all freehand sharpening stone shapes.

 

[MtnHawk1]

Thanks, JJ_Colt45 and bikerector!

I browsed around the Baryonyx stones. I carry DMT Double Sided Diafolds on my wilderness trips but was looking for a small stone to remove metal at a faster rate than they can. BYXCO makes pocket stones, which is the size I'd like, for the Arctic Fox and American Mutt, but not for the Manticore. I didn't see a micron or grit size for the American Mutt, but it looks like it's the closest one to the Manticore. I'll buy one on my next order and try it out.

 

[MtnHawk1]

We'll offer some other sizes/shapes in time, but for the job that a stone this coarse is intended to do, it does help to have a certain amount of stroke length to it. Scythe stones are pretty pack-friendly, and I keep a few in my car at all times, too. I actually consider them one of the most versatile of all freehand sharpening stone shapes.

What you say about the Manticore scythe stones makes good sense and made me rethink my priorities. Keeping knives sharp, especially in the wilderness, and doing it well and efficiently is more important to me than saving a few ounces of weight.

Thank you very much for your reply and great info!

 

[bikerector]

Thanks, JJ_Colt45 and bikerector!

I browsed around the Baryonyx stones. I carry DMT Double Sided Diafolds on my wilderness trips but was looking for a small stone to remove metal at a faster rate than they can. BYXCO makes pocket stones, which is the size I'd like, for the Arctic Fox and American Mutt, but not for the Manticore. I didn't see a micron or grit size for the American Mutt, but it looks like it's the closest one to the Manticore. I'll buy one on my next order and try it out.

I think the American mutt is more course than a course DMT. It hogs off metal pretty well, especially on the soft stuff I tend to use it on like machetes and axes. I can take a dented machete edge from clearing thick vines to a sharp edge in a couple minutes. It is prone to clogging with swarf if dry, which just slows it down, it still cuts, so I store it in a ziplock with soggy paper towels and hit it with a little water from the water bottle a little while I work. I think it works a lot better wet too.

And, to be fair, I didn't clean the edges on the tools before putting them on the stone so it could be the vegetation and dirt grime slowing the stone down. This is the kind of stuff I clear up with the machete, though now I have a baryonyx machete that works a lot better than the latin machete for such thick stuff. The knife in the picture has a 7.5" blade. That is to say, the American Mutt is a good stone for heavy work tools that could need a lot of edge work in the field.

 

[MtnHawk1]

bikerector, thanks for the info about the American Mutt! That was helpful.

I'm glad it works well for you. That is the level of sharpening performance I'd like to get with my outdoor knives, although they are almost certainly harder steel than machetes. The vegetation in your photos is way different than in western U.S. forests, which are mostly big fir and pine trees. I doubt if the large chopping knives I use, with 1/4" spines, would perform as well as machetes in your area.

Most of my outdoor knives are SR101 steel, which is great, but takes some time to reprofile and sharpen. That, combined with my desire to remove metal as quickly as possible (patience isn't one of my strong points when it comes to sharpening), made me go to lower grits than what is commonly thought of as coarse or extra-coarse, around 100-220. I was happy when I discovered the Manticore and the good reviews it gets.

I know it's usually not recommended, and against common practice, but I prefer using sharpening stones dry. Part of this is because I sometimes sharpen knives in the wilderness, where I try to keep my pack weight down, and part of it is that I like to sharpen quickly and want to avoid creating a mess with lubricants, which takes extra time to use and clean up. I've experimented with oil and water lubricants and didn't see much difference compared to stones used dry, but then I'm happy with basic, utility, toothy edges and don't need smooth, refined, polished ones. I use a small brush to brush away the swarf when I'm in the woods and a vacuum cleaner attachment at home. I'm not advocating or defending using dry stones, just saying it's what I do. I got the idea from The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, which helped me immensely when I was trying to learn how to freehand sharpen well.