Basic #7 Vs Stealheart-E????

[BoyNhisDog]

I want a fixed blade capable of hard outdoor use. Chopping would be one of its tasks. Are they easy to sharpen? What's with the asymetrical edge?

How would you users rate these two blades? What are the practical differences?

I can see the difference in handle material. Which do you find more comfortable and secure?

The blades are within 1/2 inch of each other. Are there any other differences?

I find 7" to be about right for my use. Shorter blades don't chop very well and longer ones are heavier, bulkier and a bit more awkward. 7" or there about seems to be the best compromise.

Am I on target with these two choices? Any other suggestion? I like quality and performance. I carry a sebenza folder, just need that high quality fixed blade.

Last where can you find the Stealheart in stock and ready to ship? I have found many places that carry the Basic #7.

Any and all advise will be very appreciated.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

BoyNhisDog :

Are they easy to sharpen?

Lots of details on this in past threads. I have never had any problems, other have though. You best bet is to use a fine ceramic rod for the occasional touchup and high quality SiC sandpaper on a soft backing for the occasional full sharpening. You can get the sandpaper in 15 and 5 micron from Lee Valley. Some work on a strop loaded with CrO (also from Lee Valley), will have the blade highly polished if that is what you desire. The finish left by the sandpaper will be a more agressive slicer, but will degrade quicker in high impact work.

What's with the asymetrical edge?

You have a flat side for ease of sharpening on a flat benchstone, and a convex side for greater edge durability.

Which do you find more comfortable and secure?

I have not used the new "E" grips, however based on pictures and work I have done with the Basic and old style Battle Mistress, security has to go with the "E" grip because of the less than full guard on the Basic. I could ramp up over its guard on hard stabs with a slick grip.


-Cliff

 

[HJK]

I can't comment on the Basic or the E because the only SH II I have is the old straight handle version. That one has become my main hard user for expeditions, canoeing etc. It is a fantastic knife for everything except kitchen and other small work. It's a great chopper, although a bigger knife like a BM would obviously be better as a pure chopper. I love the assymetrical edge and haven't had any trouble in sharpening.
I have an NO E and the handle is very comfortable, so I would guess the SH II E would be comfortable as well.

Personally I would take a SH over a mod infi Basic, but for a little less money you still get a tremendous knife in the Basic.

 

[Will York]

I have used both, and they both have their considerable plusses.

The SH is noticeably heavier and of INFI steel, which is a little stronger and more durable steel than Mod-INFI. The SH is a very strong knife and a great chopper for its size, and is very comfortable, per my thoughts in the following:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136438

The #7 is also a very good knife as shown by Cliff Stamp's testing (you should check his web page for an exhaustive review of the knife) and very comfortable. Lighter weight and a thinner point, if penetration is an important application for you. The handle is very comfortable unless wet, although the hard rubber (resiprene) is not as durable as the Micarta grips on the SH. It is not the chopper the SH is, but will do a creditable job compared with other knives of its size.

Bottom line, the SH has a little better grade of steel, better weight and design for chopping, and will stand up to more abuse. The #7 is lighter, somewhat quicker in the hand, and its softer resiprene grips are at least as, if not more, comfortable, unless they get wet.

As for retail distribution, the Steel Heart is only available direct from Busse. The Basic #7 together with the other Mod-INFI models have been discontinued by Busse in favor of all-INFI production, although some Basics are still available from major knife retailers, especially internet dealers.

Price of the SH runs about $300, I believe. Basic 7 prices are fluctuating due to its status, but you can still buy them for less than $200.

-w

 

[RokJok]

Originally posted by BoyNhisDog
I want a fixed blade capable of hard outdoor use. Chopping would be one of its tasks.

For "hard outdoor use" knives, Busse blades are the creme de la creme. The combo of INFI steel and the asymetrical edge make the Busses exemplary knives for heavy outdoor chores.

The best advice I can give you to decide which of these fine Busses is right for you is, "Go to a show where Busse has a table & handle both of them. Your hands will tell you more in a few minutes than anything I can say, especially since they are so close in size & capabilities."

Either the SH or the Basic #7 work well for lighter chopping (limbing out trees, cutting green brush, felling trees up to about 4 inches) as is done in most camping/survival situations. For very heavy chopping or splitting large logs to get to dry firewood, larger blades like the Battle Mistress of course will work better.

Are they easy to sharpen? What's with the asymetrical edge?

Let me blow Cliff's horn a bit and refer you to his very informative review of Busse's INFI and asymetrical edge at http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/busse_bm.html There's a great diagram on that webpage that explains the configuration and sharpening of the asymetrical edge better & quicker than any number of words from me ever could. The review also goes a long way in explaining why Busse blades work as well as they do for chopping & cutting (semi-ductile metal matrix holding very hard carbides).

How would you users rate these two blades? What are the practical differences? I can see the difference in handle material. Which do you find more comfortable and secure?

The practical difference is mostly the handles, with the blade size offering a more minor differentiation. The differences between INFI in SH and M-INFI in #7 are virtually non-existant in terms of human usage. The forces necessary to inflict the tiny numerical differences between INFI and M-INFI would destroy a human body easily, so the limiting factor is the user, not the steel.

The SH is heavier & a bit longer, which makes it a better chopper than the #7. Nonetheless, the Basic #7 has worked very well around my yard for chopping of brush & maple limbs up to 3+ inches without fazing the blade at all. In my experience, even with the lighter/shorter blade, the #7 makes a fine chopper. I find slicing a 1/2" maple branch with a single stroke quite common with the #7. The Basics also have a slimmer blade (edge to spine dimension) so they are not quite as "chunky" to use as their combat grade counterparts for tip manipulation. The fact that they come at about a $100 discount for roughly equivalent blades is a bonus.

While the ergo handles as on SH are comfortable, I find them too tall for my small hands. YMMV. The Basic 7 handles are more rounded in shape and do not uncurl my fingers so much when I hold the knive. I can chop with the #7 in my gloved hand (thin glove) for several hours and not note any discomfort in my hand. The extreme comfort of the Basic handles coupled with the bombproof M-INFI blade has made the #7 my absolute favorite knife, bar none.

7" or there about seems to be the best compromise. Am I on target with these two choices? Any other suggestion? I like quality and performance.

My experience leads me to agree with the 7" length as being about the right compromise size for all-around use. I believe you are very much on target with these two choices. As I noted above, I think either the SH or the #7 will fill the bill for your needs no problem. While there are other very good bladesmiths who make blades in this size range, since you are willing to pay the premium price to get a Busse, I don't see an advantage in adding their blades to the list of candidates because you're already looking at what are IMHO the very best blades for your needs.

Last where can you find the Stealheart in stock and ready to ship?

Check with Andre Dumochel (PapaThud) who is the west coast Main Man for Busse blades and is a great guy to boot. He has great knowledge of Busse blades and will take care of you right.

-- Bottom Line --
If money matters, you've got shorter fingers that would need a rounder handle, or you just like the handle shape better get a Basic 7. If you have bigger hands, want better chopping ability from the blade, or need the indestructibility of a micarta handle go with the Steel Heart.

REMEMBER: Go handle them both at a show!!

 

[BoyNhisDog]

Your replies have been incredibly detailed, insightful and helpful.

I have followed the different links and read all the reviews and posts. I will be carrying this knife every day in our cessna mapping airplane. It will not be a wallhanger or drawer knife. We fly over vast areas of uninhabited terrain throughout the Southwest and Mexico.

I have found that a good fixed blade in your kit is a must and the Busse will be replacing a 10" Ontario Speck one Survival Bowie. The Ontario is an inexpensive small machete. I want to get back to the 7" specs for the added versitility and more compact package.

I will think on all the replies for a while and try to get my hands on the two models under discussion. I thank you for all your help.

 

[Will York]

Originally posted by BoyNhisDog
...the Busse will be replacing a 10" Ontario Speck one Survival Bowie...

Whichever Busse you choose, rest assured you are doing the right thing.

One point to consider, if you decide on the Steel Heart, is the vintage of its manufacture. Handles of Steel Hearts made prior to spring of this year were not all fit flush, tang-to-micarta. In other words, there may be some raised, exposed tang protruding from the micarta handle slabs at the top of the handle ("top" when the knife is held edge-down). By not grinding the tang flush with the grips, the black coating on the steel remained intact to protect this area of the exposed tang. However, the ridge of steel protruding along the back of the handle proved uncomfortable for some users. To avoid any such discomfort, I believe Busse made the decision a few months ago to grind all "E" model tangs flush with the micarta grips. INFI is so inherently corrosion resistant, the exposed steel shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, when you talk to your distributor, whether Wauseon or a factory rep, you might want to ask about this aspect of handle construction on your particular knife.

One final thought. If I were choosing a knife that would ride in a kit until I had to stake my life on it, that knife would be a Steel Heart.

To me, the Basic 7's light weight and softer handle would only be a consideration if I were wearing/carrying/using it often. If you're not going to have it on your belt as a general rule, the weight/size difference is moot. And if the knife's primary mission would be to stand between you and oblivion as a last-resort tool, that could take any manner of unexpected abuse in a survival situation, I'd want the heavier duty Steel Heart.

-w

 

[RokJok]

Since this knife will be in an aviation environment where fuels, cleaners, & such chemicals are common, another reason to follow Will's recommendation for the Steel Heart is that micarta handles are very resistant to damage from contamination. It wouldn't do to fetch the blade from its carry spot in an emergency and find the handle has deteriorated or been melted by chemical action. Micarta prevents this scenario much better than any rubber type handle.