Basic questions for a first knife

T

thegeek574

Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,460
Everyone,
I have found this part of the forum very interesting, if not slightly confusing, but then i figured out that i could actually get some of my favorite steels for a pretty small amount of money. this got me started on the chase, and now i have decided what i am going to do for my first build.

Steel- D2 tool steel
Handle: G10
Blade shape: extremely basic
Overall length: 10-18 inches.
Use: practice and whacking random stuff.

I have some questions that i do not think could be answered any better elsewhere on the internet

First, does anyone know of a place that will do metal cutting for just one knife, preferably in the portland area?

Second, where is a good place to get a heat treat for just one knife?

Third, What is a good way of permanently securing G10? also, i would like for it to be able to be tightened at a later date. the thing that annoys me the most about old amateur fixed blades is that the rivets loosed up and the handle wiggles.

I would like to thank the person who wrote the "how to make a knife" thread. it was very informative.
 
D2 ain't that great a choice for a first knife. It helps that you would send it out for HT, you may find it's tough to learn to hand sand on if that's what you are planning to do.

I don't know if Peters will do single blades, but Paul Bos should, as well as Texas knifemaker's supply.

By metal cutting, do you mean rough profiling? Get a cheap angle grinder and a couple cutting discs. Wouldn't be that much more than having a machine shop cut it out.

G10 does well with epoxy and pins or corby bolts- I like the corbys. It's a sexbolt type that mechanically holds the scale on in addition to the epoxy. Pins are usually ok even if not peened- it's important that you epoxy right. Clean everything up, rough it all up, mix epoxy equally and thoroughly, epoxy coat both mating surfaces, slide together and clamp tight.

The great thing about G10, micarta, etc. is that it's stable. You should never need to tighten the fasteners, it would be impossible anyway if glued up well. The problem with older fixed blades is often that the scales are a natural material of some sort that swelled/shrunk slightly many times, thus loosening itself.

If you're stuck on the idea, you could attach the scales with countersunk cap screws tapped into the tang or into inserts in the tang. That's a bit of complication, though.
 
I agree w/ Salem,get an angle grinder from Harbor Freight for about 20 bucks and profile it yourself.
Peter's H/T,Texas knifemaker supply and a few others will heat treat 1 blade.
G-10 with a good epoxy and Corby bolts is pretty much indestructible.
Stan
 
Thank you all for the input. what steel would you recommend? I would like something that is not nice enough for me to worry about bashing it around. would you prefer A-1 or O-1?
 
Those are both great steels, I think A2 has got a bit of an edge on 01 in wear resistance, but I don't really work with either of those. Perhaps someone who does will chime in here.

My stock recommendation for learning is something like 1084fg, (AlphaKnifeSupply) or 5160 or maybe even W1. Simple, easy to sand, tough.

But you're farming out the HT, so don't let me scare you off of D2 if that's what you want... it's pretty stain resistant and that's worth some extra sweat.
 
you know for heat treat you may want to contact Gene Martin in southern Oregon. He is on here, or check out his site, customknife.com I believe. I am not associated with Gene or his site, but you expressed interest in keeping things local. He also sells some materials and I believe blade blanks as well, if that's what you want to do instead of having a machine shop cut it.


-Xander
 
Since you've decided to send the blade out for heat treating you could use vertually any steel that they can treat. From experience I know that D2 is more difficult to shape using either hand or power tools. That same toughness that makes it hard to work can be translated into a blade that holds its edge well when properly heat treated.

Regardless I agree with others that you consider using some other easier to work steel. I've only worked 1095, 1080, D2, and O1, and other than the D2, as long as they come to you annealed they are comparable softness.

I've never worked with stainless steel so can give no opinion on that.

A knife 10" to 18" sounds pretty big to me, but I suppose not if it's for "practice and whacking random stuff". There can be a lot of satisfaction in that. Who knows, this may be the start of a whole new category of knife, the random whacker.

I think you will succeed in building a knife to meet your criteria. We're all pulling for ya.

LonePine
AKA Paul Meske, Wisconsin
 
Last edited:
Thank you everyone for the input. I am thinking that i might go for more of a 6 inch knife at first, and figure out basic edge grinding. can i still use the angle grinder for that? would a bench grinder/files be better?
 
Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v11

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website



Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

Machine Shop Tools-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable PDF


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo is highly rated.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Ph# 862-203-8160

Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://www.atlasknife.com


Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment
I have a sign at my shop door, “Eyes, Ears, Fingers, Lungs” as a reminder to take off jewelry and put on my safety gear.

Respirators

bladsmth said:
Those paper paint masks are about as effective as using a sock for a condom.
Click to expand...

The minimum I would consider are the 3M and North silicone half masks;
even better are the powered positive pressure fresh air systems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309
 
thegeek574 said:
Thank you everyone for the input. I am thinking that i might go for more of a 6 inch knife at first, and figure out basic edge grinding. can i still use the angle grinder for that? would a bench grinder/files be better?
Click to expand...

I've never used an angle grinder to grind the bevel on a knife, so myself, I would try it on some random piece of mild steel that you can find and see how much control you can have with it. I would think it could probably at least take off some of the steel and then you could go at it with a file to straighten it out. I actually think there is a unwritten law that says that anyone who makes knives MUST make their first one with files.

A bench grinder is not very helpful for grinding edges. They're most useful for cleaning up the blade blank. Do you have a belt sander for sanding wood? Put a 60 or 80 grit belt on and presto, a belt grinder, sort of, kinda.

- LonePine
AKA Paul Meske, Wisconsin
 
I use have used an angle grinder to cut out the rough shape and it works pretty good. Like has been said use a belt sander or files for the bevels. The last time I used Texas Knife for heat treat , wich was a year and a half ago, they only did air hardening steels, maybe that has changed. You might want to check if you plan on using them.
 
As a real newby myself (been lurking but this is my first post actually) be sure to have good eye protection and a good ventilator. It took me a couple of minutes of sanding
G10 to think 'what the heck am I doing?!' before I realized I needed a good ventilator.
It would also help to have a spot to work where your family isnt going to be walking though as they can pick up the dust etc as well.
I just completed my first knife. It was a simple Jantz kit so all I had to do was shape, sand, and polish the handle then attach it to the steel which came 100% finished. Its a good way to go to start learning the handle end of things.
I plan to try some steel work this summer some time.
BTW, I am just east of moscow by the willamette (Portland) so at some point in the future we might be able to get together to exchange notes.
 
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