Batch 2 back from HT, Elmax heat treats CLEAN!!

jonnymac44

jonnymac44

Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
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Well here are a couple of pics of my second batch of knives that went to heat treat at Peters. They do an amazing job then ends up very easy to clean and finish with the ATS-34, but what really impressed me was how my first blade in Elmax came back.:thumbup: Notice in the comparison shot how clean the blade is with just a slight golden hue to it. I already have the blades in a little vinegar bath. After only two or three minutes the Elmax blade is looking bright and shiny. Looking forward to seeing how the steel finishes up.

Now......time to get down to business with sanding and handles!!

Batch2PostHT.jpg


Batch2PostHT1.jpg
 
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Looking good. I love the one with the top swedge. How many blades do you have under your belt now if you don't mind me asking?
 
theflyingplatypus said:
Looking good. I love the one with the top swedge. How many blades do you have under your belt now if you don't mind me asking?
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Thanks, platy!
My first batch was three knives, then there are these eight making a total of 11. I also have the batch in this picture that are in different states of completion, all of which are pre heat treat. I'm getting more comfortable grinding in swedges and I'm having a lot of fun with that.:thumbup:

Batch3.jpg
 
Driften said:
Where is the place you sent the knives for HT? I had not heard of Peters.
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Peters is in Meadville, PA. They are on the web, and they do an exceptional job, including great communication and good pricing. You want to talk to Brad Stallsmith, who is in charge of their cutlery department. He's taken good care of me so far:thumbup:
 
Not to be a PITA, but the top knife in your last picture, those two holes at the finger coil, didn't they take to much metal away?
Isn't the rest of the tang weakened this way?
 
Hengelo_77 said:
Not to be a PITA, but the top knife in your last picture, those two holes at the finger coil, didn't they take to much metal away?
Isn't the rest of the tang weakened this way?
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I think you are referring to the two holes just above the finger grooves in the handle, which are there to reduce the overall weight of the knife. You're not being a PITA at all, no worries. In my opinion, there's plenty of metal there. Additionally when the knife is finished it will have handle slabs and pins as well, adding more strength. That knife is sub-7 inch everday utility knife for general tasks and isn't built to be a heavy duty prybar or chopper. That being said, I think it will end up being pretty tough.
 
Johnny,
Several years back, I made five sets of wedge blade choppers in ATS-34. They were exactly like the last ones in your group shot ( they could be the same blades - weird - I made the sets a parer, a slicer, and a chopper, at 3",5",7"). I discovered that the needle sharp and fine tip was both a hazard and a design flaw. I ground each back about 1/2" and made the tip sort of santoku shaped. It was much easier to use....and a lot safer.
I didn't sell any until the blade was modified, then I sold all five sets.
Out of curiosity, did you draw that design yourself, or was it pre-cut by a water jet cutter?

You might want to consider that on yours.
 
jonnymac44,

What did you Rc the Elmax blade at? I just got some Elmax from Alpha last week. I'm making an 8" drop point hunter and was wondering what to treat it to, was planning on 60-61.
 
bladsmth said:
Johnny,
Several years back, I made five sets of wedge blade choppers in ATS-34. They were exactly like the last ones in your group shot ( they could be the same blades - weird - I made the sets a parer, a slicer, and a chopper, at 3",5",7"). I discovered that the needle sharp and fine tip was both a hazard and a design flaw. I ground each back about 1/2" and made the tip sort of santoku shaped. It was much easier to use....and a lot safer.
I didn't sell any until the blade was modified, then I sold all five sets.
Out of curiosity, did you draw that design yourself, or was it pre-cut by a water jet cutter?

You might want to consider that on yours.
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Stacy,
Mine are only about 3" overall length so they're much smaller than yours, but I did draw the design myself, I swear!!:D For me it was born of having a three inch piece of steel that I didn't want to waste, so I drew that one up to fit it. You can't tell from the picture, but the tip on the very bottom one is actually more rounded like a santoku like you did on yours. The one with the needle tip just looked so wicked like that that I wanted to keep it. I call them my little two finger wharnies. I've already finished one up and carry it sometimes. It doesn't have the needle sharp tip like the one in this pic.

Thanks for the tip.....pun intended;) I'd love to see a pic of yours if you have any. Here is a pic of the first one I did. The handle was a bit too thick so I've changed that on the newer ones. My grinds are also getting a bit better.

FirstKnifeEver.jpg
 
jaymeister99 said:
jonnymac44,

What did you Rc the Elmax blade at? I just got some Elmax from Alpha last week. I'm making an 8" drop point hunter and was wondering what to treat it to, was planning on 60-61.
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Hey Jay,
Peters treats the Elmax the same as 154 CM or ATS-34. I ask them to do it between 58 and 60. This last batch all tested at 59:thumbup:

Also, good choice with Alpha Chuck and Jessica are great people to deal with!
 
Johnny,
I didn't really think you had copied mine....and proof that there are no "unique and new" knife shapes. I'll try and see if I still have some blanks in the shop, and finish up another set.
I was mostly wondering if my old laser cutter was selling the design ( it has happened before to many folks).
Not an issue in either case, actually a compliment.
 
bladsmth said:
Johnny,
I didn't really think you had copied mine....and proof that there are no "unique and new" knife shapes. I'll try and see if I still have some blanks in the shop, and finish up another set.
I was mostly wondering if my old laser cutter was selling the design ( it has happened before to many folks).
Not an issue in either case, actually a compliment.
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Thanks Stacy:thumbup:
 
Do you mind sharing the Rockwell hardness of the ELMAX after heat treatment? In our experiments we have found that 61 Rc still has good toughness. And Rc 59 is really tough.
Also, now that the knives are probably done, how is the performance?
 
Premiumsteel said:
Do you mind sharing the Rockwell hardness of the ELMAX after heat treatment? In our experiments we have found that 61 Rc still has good toughness. And Rc 59 is really tough.
Also, now that the knives are probably done, how is the performance?
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Peters tested mine when finished and they were right at 59, which was just perfect for me. Neither of the blades I've made so far with Elmax were kept. They both have new homes and while I've heard that the owners were happy with the performance, we haven't gotten into heavy detail. I do know from first hand experience that the Kershaws I own using Elmax are top notch. Great edge, great retention, and I've put it to some good hard use without any rolling or chipping. Seems plenty tough:thumbup:

I have a few more Elmax knives in the works but I think they all have homes as well. As much as I like the steel I should save one for myself sometime:D
 
ELMAX at 59 Rc is very tough. Here are some heat treatment schedules that might be of interest.

2010 F, 30 minute soak, 4 Bar quench, 2 hours at 480F twice. 59 Rc extremely tough. No deep freeze.

2100F, 15 minute soak, 4 Bar quench, -120 Deep Freeze, 2 hours at 480F twice, 61 Rc, good toughness, better than other powder metals we tested that were at 57 or 58 Rc.

For ultimate hardness, with some loss of toughness:

2100F, 15 minute soak, 4 bar quench, -300 DF, 2 hours at 390F twice. This heat treatment is good if you want to do rope cut testing.

In our tests deep freezes of -120 or -300 were about the same. Do -300 if possible, but we doubt it is worth paying extra for.

The key to success with ELMAX is a quick quench, 4 bar positive in commercial batch treatments or plate quench with forced air for single blades. The steel must be cooled quickly enough to transform.

Two tempers are necessary.
 
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