Are all Battle Ready Swords made of spring steel ? Also i'm looking for a high-end Battle ready sword , The only brand that keeps coming up in a search is Angus Trim swords. Does anyone know of any other high-end brand ? To finish how does one take care of rust if it appears ?
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Battle ready swords
- Thread starter Xen
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"Battle ready" is an interesting and often misused term. From my perspective, swords are meant to cut/thrust through flesh and bone while defeating most practical wearable armors excluding plate.
The Angus Trim swords are first rate and will offer top performance - they are performance oriented with concessions to historical correctness. I have many and can vouch for their performance. Arms & Armor offers first rate historically accuate pieces. You can look to Del Tin and Armart to provide sturdy useable and historically accurate weapons. Kris Cutlery offers decent useable swords. Take a look over at http://swordforum.com/forums/ or http://www.thehaca.com/ for links. Don't forget the custom smiths like Tinker Pierce and Al Massey - see BladeArt.com for some examples.
Yes, all useable swords are going to use a spring steel like 5160 - it works and works well. As for rust - it happens. Carbon steel demands maintenance. Look at it as an excuse to handle the sword.
The Angus Trim swords are first rate and will offer top performance - they are performance oriented with concessions to historical correctness. I have many and can vouch for their performance. Arms & Armor offers first rate historically accuate pieces. You can look to Del Tin and Armart to provide sturdy useable and historically accurate weapons. Kris Cutlery offers decent useable swords. Take a look over at http://swordforum.com/forums/ or http://www.thehaca.com/ for links. Don't forget the custom smiths like Tinker Pierce and Al Massey - see BladeArt.com for some examples.
Yes, all useable swords are going to use a spring steel like 5160 - it works and works well. As for rust - it happens. Carbon steel demands maintenance. Look at it as an excuse to handle the sword.
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5160 steel is among the best sword steels out there. Where I live I never have rust problems. If you are in a damp area, make sure to oil the blade now and then, its part of the charm of sword ownership.
For a cutting sword, ATrim swords are probably the best in the production world, better than most customs. Good value but not perfect. Aesthetically they would look a step out of place among antiques.
Del Tins have pretty good performance and has a timless look to them. It's no surprise Del Tins are often seen in period movies.
Arms and Armor are flat out the best looking swords I've seen. Some of their higher end models look like they belong in a museum. Performance is quite good also.
It is hard to find sword makers that put the same attention to detail as knife makers though. Remember most swords cost as little as a good knife despite the added work. Fit and finnish invariably suffers. I have yet to see a production European style sword with the level of craftsmanship of a Randall knife.
For a cutting sword, ATrim swords are probably the best in the production world, better than most customs. Good value but not perfect. Aesthetically they would look a step out of place among antiques.
Del Tins have pretty good performance and has a timless look to them. It's no surprise Del Tins are often seen in period movies.
Arms and Armor are flat out the best looking swords I've seen. Some of their higher end models look like they belong in a museum. Performance is quite good also.
It is hard to find sword makers that put the same attention to detail as knife makers though. Remember most swords cost as little as a good knife despite the added work. Fit and finnish invariably suffers. I have yet to see a production European style sword with the level of craftsmanship of a Randall knife.
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Not in person, but no way does his work qualify as factory production.
- Joined
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- 2,959
TWG says...
<b>"I have yet to see a production European style sword with the level of craftsmanship of a Randall knife."</b>
and I have to agree with him. However, things are slowly starting to change for the better.
For many years, there was not enough interest in Western Swordsmanship to justify a line of high end production swords. If someone wanted a sword at all, they wanted something to hang on the wall in the "Den" and forget about it.
The SCA came along, and they wanted swords that looked better, but they didn't really have to be any better quality than the wall hangers, as the SCA types don't actually use their swords anyway. (peace tie? no thanks!)
However now we begin to see a resurgence of interest in actual Live Steel Swordsmanship and demand for good quality user grade swords is on the increase.
People are also learning that they can't go out and spend 125 bucks and get a sword that will serve their purposes.
I think these factors will eventually be seen for the "gold mine market" that they represent, and manufacturers will come along to fill those gaps.
It will take time, but look at how the knife industry has progressed in the last 20 years. I suspect that if current trends continue, we'll see the same sort of dynamic in the sword world.
(At least I hope so!)
<b>"I have yet to see a production European style sword with the level of craftsmanship of a Randall knife."</b>
and I have to agree with him. However, things are slowly starting to change for the better.
For many years, there was not enough interest in Western Swordsmanship to justify a line of high end production swords. If someone wanted a sword at all, they wanted something to hang on the wall in the "Den" and forget about it.
The SCA came along, and they wanted swords that looked better, but they didn't really have to be any better quality than the wall hangers, as the SCA types don't actually use their swords anyway. (peace tie? no thanks!)
However now we begin to see a resurgence of interest in actual Live Steel Swordsmanship and demand for good quality user grade swords is on the increase.
People are also learning that they can't go out and spend 125 bucks and get a sword that will serve their purposes.
I think these factors will eventually be seen for the "gold mine market" that they represent, and manufacturers will come along to fill those gaps.
It will take time, but look at how the knife industry has progressed in the last 20 years. I suspect that if current trends continue, we'll see the same sort of dynamic in the sword world.
(At least I hope so!)
There is a company at "www.museumreplicas.com"
that advertises their stuff is usable.
I've never ordered any, but I did get a carbon
steel katana blade (from another company) made
by Windlass which makes many of these swords.
Its been ok for practice/exercising. Don't really
know enough to recommend it or not.
Perhaps someone else has had some experience with
this company and can comment on it.
that advertises their stuff is usable.
I've never ordered any, but I did get a carbon
steel katana blade (from another company) made
by Windlass which makes many of these swords.
Its been ok for practice/exercising. Don't really
know enough to recommend it or not.
Perhaps someone else has had some experience with
this company and can comment on it.
Triton
Gold Member
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- 35,942
Well Ken will show up any minute now and extol the virtues of the MRL rapier but all reports that I have heard say that Windlass/MRL is of dubious quality at best. Further reports are (mostly generated by the company) that they have a new product line that will be much better but I have seen no feedback on this lineup from the user community yet.
but all reports that I have heard say that Windlass/MRL is of dubious quality at best. Further reports are (mostly generated by the company) that they have a new product line that will be much better but I have seen no feedback on this lineup from the user community yet.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 1999
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- 2,959
Triton,
Scotjute,
Yes I used to recommend both Museum Replicas Limited (MRL)and Windlass blades as decent beaters that would stand up to the wear and tear of regular duelling, but no more.
Why not?
The swords are the same "beater" quality they've always been, but their prices have all gone up enough that they're no longer a good choice.
Back in the days when I could buy two MRL or Windlass swords for the price of one Darkwood or Del Tin, it made sense to buy the cheaper swords. Now another 50 or 75 dollars will get you into the price range of some much better quality swords. MRL is quickly pricing itself right out of it's own market niche.
I've never seen any of MRL's or Windlass's oriental stuff, so I can't comment on that, but I really can't believe the quality of workmanship or material is any better on their Eastern swords than on their Westerns.
Scotjute,
Yes I used to recommend both Museum Replicas Limited (MRL)and Windlass blades as decent beaters that would stand up to the wear and tear of regular duelling, but no more.
Why not?
The swords are the same "beater" quality they've always been, but their prices have all gone up enough that they're no longer a good choice.
Back in the days when I could buy two MRL or Windlass swords for the price of one Darkwood or Del Tin, it made sense to buy the cheaper swords. Now another 50 or 75 dollars will get you into the price range of some much better quality swords. MRL is quickly pricing itself right out of it's own market niche.
I've never seen any of MRL's or Windlass's oriental stuff, so I can't comment on that, but I really can't believe the quality of workmanship or material is any better on their Eastern swords than on their Westerns.
Triton
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2000
- Messages
- 35,942
I figured that would get you Ken. So MRL's prices have gone up? That seems kind of silly. Have they gone up on the same swords that used to sell for lower prices? That would be down right stupid. If they were smart they would have left the old product line prices alone and gradually just phased the line out in favor of the new stuff which they could have had higher prices on since inception.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 1999
- Messages
- 2,959
(Atrim prices are from Christian Fletcher)
Type 15 Sword
Atrim, 325.00
MRL, 230.00 or 239.00 (two different versions)
Gothic Bastard Sword
MRL, 288.95
Atrim Type XVIa, 375.00
(The two swords are nearly identical, I dont care what they call them.)
Type XVIII
MRL, 288.00
Atrim, 325.00
Shell guard Rapier
MRL, 404.00
Tear Drop Pappenheimer Rapier from Darkwood, 285.00
Classic Rapier
MRL, 319.95
Similar hilt design from Darkwood, 270 (w/sharp Del Tin blade.)
Steel Swept hilt Rapier,
MRL, 294.00 (this one is a beater)
Darkwood, 270.00
In every comparison listed above, MRL cant even begin to approach the level of quality on either the Darkwood rapiers or Angus Trim swords.
Sure, the Atrims are often 100 dollars more, but the difference in quality just makes buying the MRL swords a foolish proposition.
My favorite aside from the rapier is the Type 18 or 18a, and notice the 37 dollar difference on the Type 18. Id have to be an idiot to buy the MRL.
The Darkwood rapiers are actually cheaper than most of the MRL models, and there is no way any MRL rapier is ever going to compare favorably with anything wearing a Del Tin blade.
The long and the short of it, is that you may have to spend an extra hundred dollars, but the difference in quality is staggering.
Spend the extra money guys!
Type 15 Sword
Atrim, 325.00
MRL, 230.00 or 239.00 (two different versions)
Gothic Bastard Sword
MRL, 288.95
Atrim Type XVIa, 375.00
(The two swords are nearly identical, I dont care what they call them.)
Type XVIII
MRL, 288.00
Atrim, 325.00
Shell guard Rapier
MRL, 404.00
Tear Drop Pappenheimer Rapier from Darkwood, 285.00
Classic Rapier
MRL, 319.95
Similar hilt design from Darkwood, 270 (w/sharp Del Tin blade.)
Steel Swept hilt Rapier,
MRL, 294.00 (this one is a beater)
Darkwood, 270.00
In every comparison listed above, MRL cant even begin to approach the level of quality on either the Darkwood rapiers or Angus Trim swords.
Sure, the Atrims are often 100 dollars more, but the difference in quality just makes buying the MRL swords a foolish proposition.
My favorite aside from the rapier is the Type 18 or 18a, and notice the 37 dollar difference on the Type 18. Id have to be an idiot to buy the MRL.
The Darkwood rapiers are actually cheaper than most of the MRL models, and there is no way any MRL rapier is ever going to compare favorably with anything wearing a Del Tin blade.
The long and the short of it, is that you may have to spend an extra hundred dollars, but the difference in quality is staggering.
Spend the extra money guys!