battoning a folder

T

tripletrash

Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
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I know you can batton with a small fixed blade but will battoning damage a folder? Will battoning a benchmade folder void the warrante?
 
yes it can as a matter o fact. its the lock you have to worry about. as for benchmade and their warranty? couldnt tellya to be honest , they should have something on thier web site regarding that i think.there is a thread not to far back that deals with this question specifically[whamming folders ]. i think itll have the info youre looking for. READ THE WHOLE DARN THING .youll see why . if you baton your folder just tap tap not wham wham.
 
benchmade folders dont like to be hit nor does anyother folder for that matter so keep your fingers clear lest you find yourself in a character building experience.
 
tripletrash said:
I know you can batton with a small fixed blade but will battoning damage a folder?
Click to expand...

At some point most activities can be harmful if enough force is used, I have lots of knives that you could break for example if you tried to cut through the bottom of a pepsi bottle and were not *really* careful. I have used these outdoors for many activites, wood carving, felling, fire making, shelter construction, you just have to go very slow and very light and it takes you a long time.

The amount of force that can be applied depends on the knife, I have folders which are far stronger and more durable than many fixed blades so it isn't as simple as a type restriction. You need to look at how much steel is in the blade, its cross section, the type of steel, the handle construction and its materials.

Will battoning a benchmade folder void the warrante?
Click to expand...

Doug Ritter designed the Ritter Grip from Benchmade, I discussed batoning with him awhile ago because it is a promoted use of the knife, this is what he said :

"Well, we went at it with vigor using about a 2-inch baton and split a bunch of wood, going through a few batons in the process."

Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351118

Now if you are hitting the folder hard enough to damage the 2" baton enough that they need to be replaced, you are not tapping the knife obviously nor would you call that a vigerous activity, thus it is clear that Ritter is promoting use of his knife far beyond some of the limitations that many people believe should be applied to folders. The same holds true of knives in general, some makers/manufacturers are far more restrictive than others.

The main problem for users is that while companies have done raw strength tests under slow loading, and these lock numbers are often very high, as in 1000 in.lbs, which means hundreds of pounds of force could be applied to the handle, there is little to no work done on impacts. I have seen many folders which were very strong statically fail readily under even light impacts as in just tap the spine off the back of your hand.

This use of folding knives, heavy impacts, is only fairly recent, and came about basically as a natural consequency of people promoting the folders as tactical and emergency use tools with the use of very high break points and very heavy and thick blades and handles. Hopefully as it starts to be more widespread the makers/manufactures will start testing this aspect of lock strength just as they now do with slow loads and thus the consumers can make better decisions.

Right now about the best you can do is ask them and see what they say or just try a bunch of folders and see what it takes to damage the locks. I have seen some fairly heavy folders just go from wrist chopping so they would not have reacted well to batoning unless the baton was lighter than the knife itself and quite frankly there is no local wood which could be split with that level of impacts anyway, the knife simply would not cut into the wood.

Note as well that for most "survival" batoning you are going to be cutting dead wood and this can be *massively* harder to split than fresh wood or even better commercial lumber, unless of course the seasoned wood has cracked naturally in which case forget about batoning, just drive wedges into it if you have the time. The type of wood makes a large difference as well, splitting a piece of fresh pine has little in common with a piece of seasoned elm. You are not splitting the latter by tapping anything.

If the wood is really bad often you should try to avoid batoning it directly. You however can't always just select other wood, so you have to know how to deal with it. If you have a saw what you can do it cut sideways into the wood, make enough cuts and any wood will split easily. If you cut close enough to the end you can just crack the pieces off by blunt impact. If the wood has a heavy knot on one end then make a cut just above the knot and split the wood from the other end and you will just end up with a bunch of small sticks and one of them has a knot ball on the end.

If you don't have a saw or a large blade and all you have is a light blade which can only take really light force then don't even try to split the wood at all directly. Instead take off sections of the side and split it very gradually in small pieces maybe even very small like 1/4" thick. Start off with the most open grain parts and the straightest regions. If you can do this on enough pieces of wood you can build up the fire to the point where you can burn the core or knotty woods directly.

If the wood is so bad that you can't even do this then don't baton at all, use the knife to cut notches into the top of the wood and drive wooden wedges or rocks into the notches and try to crack it that way. You can also try to wet the wood and get it to freeze which can sometimes cause it to crack naturally. If all of this fails you may have to resort to just carving off enough wood to slim down the rounds which takes a *LONG* time but is more productive than breaking the knife off.

Do all of this in your backyard of course, so if it fails to be productive you can just walk back inside and get warm.

-Cliff
 
useless self sroking about sums that one up for sure. im almost sorry i even asked that question in the opening thread . i learned alot though, you just have to read through the crap like lskylizard said. hope it doesnt happen on this thread.
 
No doubt that no folder will stand up to the abuse that a fixed blade will endure.

I love folders don't get me wrong but I find that fixed blades almost always perform better than folders. Yet 90% of my knives are folders.

Recently I was shaving a piece of wood to get those really thin curls that light up so fast; first I used a Benchmade mini rsk then I tried a cheap Frost mora (the little red handled one). The shavings were easier to make and were twice as thin when I used the Mora. More leverage gave me more sensativity.

Now on the subject of battoning with a folder; I used the same BM Mini rsk to batton through some 1-2" branches. All you have to do is hit ONLY the top of the blade with "clean, precise, firm TAP". It worked great and the knife showed no signs of abuse.

Sure if you go nuts you can break ANY knife; I have to get one of those Pry Babies so I am never tempted to pry anything with my EDC.

B
 
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