BBQ Grill?

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bzzhewt

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I'm a Noob, so pardon my ignorance.
Can an unmodified charcoal or propane grill be used for annealing and hardening a blade? If so, how?

Also, what is the difference between normalizing and annealing? In Wayne Goddard's $50 dollar knife shop book, it seems to be the same thing. I assume that one would want to anneal the blade before working it to make it easier to grind.

Thanx.
 
You are right you do want to annel the blade before filling or grinding it. That is if you have forged it. You can buy annealed stock and heat treat it when the knife is finished. I did a couple of stock removal knives with anealed spring steel.

I could be wrong but my take on normallizing is more about removing stresses in the metal than softening it. Annealing is letting it cool down over a longer time.

If you can get the metal read hot you can heat treat it . If you have a gas cooker try it and see. However if you make a bit of a cover out of some fire bricks it will hold more heat in like a forge. Be carefull messing with gas can be dangerous. Safety glasses area must when forging and metal working.
 
My understanding is this

Normalizing involves heating the steel to critical tamperature, maybe holding for a bit and letting it cool in air. This reduces stress in the steel.

Annealing is heating the steel to critical temperature, often holding at temp for a bit and cooling it slowly. This leaves the steel in a softend state.

In some simple steels the cooling rate is such that the two processes are essentially the same.


As for heat treating you heat the steel to critical temperature and cool it rapidally to harden them temper. A regulare grill may work, if you cat get around 1300 to 1500 degrees F (some alloys require higher temps), it will work. A simple test for critical temp is a magnet. When the steel is above critical temp a magnet won't wtick.
 
With a blower added,you could use a charcoal grill,(it won't get hot enough without extra oxygen).A gas grill won't work.You would be better to build a simple brick oven and use a propane torch for the heat source.Do a search on "One brick oven".Four or five fire bricks make a usable starter oven.You can even use a propane torch without an oven,but it is hard for a novice to determine the actual temperature of the steel..
There is red hot and then there is "RED" hot (1600F).all red is not the same.Use a magnet to check.
 
I did a search for tin can and other simple forges (I am already familiar with the one brick forge), and i can't really find anything.
Any links or anything?

Also, would it work to put a bunch of charcoal in a grill and use a hair dryer or bellows without actually hooking them up to the forge?

Thanx.
 
My two cents. I may appear very newbish by posting this but I live in an apartment and I dont have tons of cash to spend on extras so I learn to make do with what I got.
A basic BBQ can and will work with the right type of steel. I use D2. My small BBQ is a 12$ job from Target.
I make a nice pile of coals and place them to somewhat of a pyramid shape , lighter fluid and match and let em get red hot. My BBQ has a half moon shaped thick wire handle , with this I prop up the lid so its only about 6 inches open , I also open up the 3 vents , then I place my oscillating (in non oscilating mode) fan about a foot away and put it on high *after coals get going*
All of this creates a "vortex" of fast moving air that really heats those coals up , at this point I carefully stick in the blade and let it do it work.
About 20-25 minutes is usually good , keep a magnet handy , if you do it at night you can see the blade glowing orangish , using a pliers or whatever take your blade out slow so not to mess up your coal pile and see if the 'blade' part is non-magnetic, if so your good to quench , if not then stick her back in for a while.
I use olive oil to quench , like I said I use what I have and it works for what I make :) Put your blade in slow , a little at a time and let it cool and you should be good to go , after its cool and cleaned of oil (de-natured alcohol works good for me) take a newish file and gently move it on the blade area , the file should slide right off. Then I would do some cleaning of the blade to get the gunk off , next heat your oven to about 450' and bake for an hour , let it completley cool and then do it again , now your knife should be ready for cleaning , sharpening etc.

** If any of your Old Timers see flaws in my method please feel free to pipe in ! :) **
 
Old timers as in been around the block a few times....That wasnt soothing huh... umm... old timers as in guys with vastly more knowledge than I have ... ? how's that :D
 
Well my BBQ isnt that big, one of those little Webers that you would be hard pressed fitting a big turkey in... I use about 1/5 to 1/4 of a standard bag , depending on how big the blade is of course.
I think that the trick is making a nice pile of coals and keeping that shape until they glow , trying to maximize your heat. When that moving air hits em they should glow like a mini sun. Then put your blade , carefully , into them.
Just use caution , I dont want to feel responsible for any burns :) Sometimes if it is a smaller blade I will use my old pair of pliers to put it in the coals.
Remember to keep a magnet handy , youll need a real magnet , if you have any old hard drives laying around rip em open , those magnets are what I use. You want the entire blade area to be non-magnetic. As soon as it starts to cool it will become magnetic again so do the test as soon as its out of the coals (blade should be very orangish hot).
Good luck :)
 
Welcome Jhon.

If you look at the date of the last few post you will see that this is a fourteen year old thread. Try not to resurrect these old threads.
If you had a question of comment on an old thread. it is usually better to start a new thread and link an old one in your question.

Also, fill out your profile. It will tell us some things about you like where you live and your hobbies, occupation, etc.
 
On the off chance that you need an extremely one of a kind grilling experience you should investigate the pellet grill. In the event that it's an ideal opportunity to supplant a maturing grill or grill, before you make your next buy, investigate a pellet grill. It will help transform you into a genuine outside cook.
 
Fairyson,
PLEASE look at the date of a thread before resurrecting a 15 year old thread .... especially when the last post was pointing that out to a fellow a year ago.

Thread closed.
 
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