Be Careful Buying or Swapping Shotgun Ammo

Old CW4

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Maybe I've had more than the normal number of careless shooters/hunters in my shop. Anyway, I recall two occasions when customers brought in jammed shotguns caused by buying shells from a super store and from a clerk who didn't know shotgun shells from tubes of deodorant. What these guys bought was 3 inch shells for their 2.75 inch shotguns! Then they shot some of those shells in their guns! They were damned lucky to only have jammed guns. They could have been maimed or killed!

Most 2.75 chambered pump and double barrel shotguns will chamber and fire three inch shells, perhaps ten or more, before jamming or blowing up. Semi autos will usually 'tell you' something is wrong by their violent reload function due to increased gas but not always. The cause of the extreme danger from too long shells is the internal barrel taper just in front of the actual chamber. The taper provides room for the shell to uncrimp when fired and reduces the internal diameter from that of the shell to the gauge diameter of the barrel proper through which the shot travels when fired.

In a three inch chamber, there's plenty of room for the shell's crimp to expand into that area. In a 2.75 chamber the 3.0 shell's crimp can also expand but not completely. The heat of firing can then cause some of the extra plastic crimp material to melt and fuse to that barrel area. Additional shots layer on more plastic and the barrel opening is obstructed more and more with each succeeding shot. Pressure builds along with the increasing barrel obstruction until the gun jams---or explodes as it is gradually turned into a pipe bomb! This is NOT theory, it has, and unfortunately, does happen with catastrophic results.

Bottom line. KNOW what length shells your shotgun is designed for and NEVER fire a longer shell in it!

Shorter is okay, for example, a 2.5 shell in a 2.75 chamber is fine; or either of those in a 3.0 inch chamber; and 2.5, 2.75, and 3.0 inch in a 3.5 inch chamber, no problem. But NEVER go the other way! BTW, the gauge and chamber length is usually (but not always) stamped on the upper left side of the barrel near the action. In any event, know your gun's chamber length and always shoot ONLY the correct length shells!

When buying shells, specify the length along with the gauge you need, then check what the clerk hands you. And be damned careful swapping shells with others when shooting or hunting.

One final comment: Some do-it-yourselfers and some incompetent or don't give a damn gunsmiths have been known to rework the internal taper area of shotguns so they'll accept longer shells. THIS IS A TOTALLY STUPID, DANGEROUS, AND EVEN CRIMINAL PRACTICE!

I compare this to idiots who have reamed out 38 special revolver chambers to accept 357 magnum rounds. It might work for a while but you've created a potential bomb! Guns are 'proof fired' (Proofed) when designed and manufactured to ensure they can safely handle the ammo for which they were designed. Changing guns to accomodate larger shells or rounds, and hot loading beyond published loading manual specifications is a recipe for disaster. Please don't do it or even contemplate it.....!
 
Great info, I'm really enjoying these gun smithing threads. In Canada there is a safety course that has to be taken in order to purchase firearms. I remember the point on to long shotgun shells being hammered into everyone head. It's too bad that so many people end up learning the hard way about these sorts of things.

About your point on reaming a .38 to accept .357. A fellow at work was telling me how it's safe to interchange .38 and .357. Now im starting to question his advice and glad I never tried it...
 
About your point on reaming a .38 to accept .357. A fellow at work was telling me how it's safe to interchange .38 and .357. Now im starting to question his advice and glad I never tried it...

.38 specials will safely chamber and fire in a .375 magnum revolver. NOT the other way around. The case on a magnum round is about 1/8th of an inch longer to prevent just such an occurrence.
 
Old CW4 might be able to tell more into this, but I heard after running 38's in a 357mag, you must clean out the cylinders, the cone and the barrel, or you could have a un wanted result from firing 357mag's, after you just fired the 38's. I could be wrong, but I thought I did hear that once.
 
Old CW4 might be able to tell more into this, but I heard after running 38's in a 357mag, you must clean out the cylinders, the cone and the barrel, or you could have a un wanted result from firing 357mag's, after you just fired the 38's. I could be wrong, but I thought I did hear that once.

Your thinking about the myth that when you shoot 38 in a 357, it leaves a ring of carbon/corosian that can make it hard to chamber the 357 round. SImiler to the myth the shooting .22 short can cause problems when you go back to shooting .22lr

Back when we had corrosive ammo, this was a problem, but not now.
 
Your thinking about the myth that when you shoot 38 in a 357, it leaves a ring of carbon/corosian that can make it hard to chamber the 357 round. SImiler to the myth the shooting .22 short can cause problems when you go back to shooting .22lr

Back when we had corrosive ammo, this was a problem, but not now.

Not a myth and the ammo does not need to be corrosive, just dirty.

If you clean your guns thoroughly after each range session it is a non-issue.
 
Not a myth and the ammo does not need to be corrosive, just dirty.

If you clean your guns thoroughly after each range session it is a non-issue.

I also heard that you want to shoot .357s *before* you shoot .38s (if you are planning on shooting both), because if you shoot .357 after, you can "cook" (for lack of a better word) the residue that is deposited from the .38s.

Of course, I've switched to shooting mostly FMJ .38s, so that really cuts down on the crap.
 
Your thinking about the myth that when you shoot 38 in a 357, it leaves a ring of carbon/corosian that can make it hard to chamber the 357 round. SImiler to the myth the shooting .22 short can cause problems when you go back to shooting .22lr

Back when we had corrosive ammo, this was a problem, but not now.

I don't know about .22s,but I definitely had a problem with .38s leaving a ring of build up in my .357. It was very hard to clean and even though I thought I was doing a good job, it got to the point where the .357s didn't want to eject and then didn't want to load.

I ended up taking the gun to a professional and gave up on shooting the .38s. Now that I've been shooting longer, I think the problem was using commercial reloads and not being aggressive enough with the cleaning, but it did happen and it wasn't all that long ago.
 
Brad Gruelich,
Brad, it's perfectly safe to shoot 38s in a 357. The two cartridges are the same size except for length. The 357 is 1/10 inch longer to prevent it being chambered in a 38 because it is far more powerful than a 38. However, some fools reamed their 38 chambers deeper to accept 357 cartridges, and some of them paid a bloody price for doing so. As the saying goes, 'it aint nice to fool with Mother Nature.' Also ain't nice or wise to rechamber/alter weaker guns for much more powerful cartridges, e.g., 357s in a 38, or 3 inch shotgun shells in a 2.75 inch chambered gun.
 
As for 38s 'ringing' 357 mag chambers, I've never had a problem with that. Some of the more 'smoky' powders such as Unique can leave residue in the chamber but routine cleaning will get rid of it. 38s in a 357 will certainly not harm the gun in any way.
 
On the point of shotguns, make sure if you own several gauges or are out shooting with someone with a different gauge to keep the ammo separate. Remember that a 20ga. will slide down the barrel of a 12ga. that could be bad.
 
Brad Gruelich,
Brad, it's perfectly safe to shoot 38s in a 357. The two cartridges are the same size except for length. The 357 is 1/10 inch longer to prevent it being chambered in a 38 because it is far more powerful than a 38. However, some fools reamed their 38 chambers deeper to accept 357 cartridges, and some of them paid a bloody price for doing so. As the saying goes, 'it aint nice to fool with Mother Nature.' Also ain't nice or wise to rechamber/alter weaker guns for much more powerful cartridges, e.g., 357s in a 38, or 3 inch shotgun shells in a 2.75 inch chambered gun.

I can understand not modifying a .38 to accept high pressure .357, but how about modifying a .22 lr single shot to chamber .22 WMR?
 
On the point of shotguns, make sure if you own several gauges or are out shooting with someone with a different gauge to keep the ammo separate. Remember that a 20ga. will slide down the barrel of a 12ga. that could be bad.

A lotta folks seem to think if the round fits you're good to go. I've had people tell me they fire .380 out of an unmodified 9mm Makarov and that you can fire a .45 ACP out of a .410 or .45 LC if you put a rubber O-ring around the base :eek:

I recall a .32 S&W Long revolver that my brother had. He ran out of ammo for it and used some .32 short which seemed to work fine. Then he found half a box of corroded .32 Colt at a garage sale for a dollar :eek: They rattled around in the cylinder but they did fit. Had to push each spent casing out with a nail as every round had split down the side.
 
tyr shadowblade, re modifying a standard 22 for 22 WMR:

My short answer is NO! The chamber and barrel would no doubt take the increased pressure but how about the bolt lug or lugs, the sometimes rather flimsy mechanisms that hold the bolt closed when firing? These are designed to be sufficiently strong for the ammo the gun was designed for but may not be strong enough for a more powerful round.

I personally witnessed a death at a public range near El Paso, TX in 1958. The range had cement bench/table setups on the rifle firing line about 20 feet apart. The guy to my left was shooting a large caliber rifle. I was taking a break for a few minutes and happened to be looking directly his way when he touched off a round. The bolt let go and took off the entire right half of his head and I remember seeing a large object fly off behind him. I ran over, of course, because he was still flopping around on the ground but it was too late. I lost my breakfast and wound up spending hours there when the police came to make statements. They found the rifle bolt and parts of his skull in the parking lot more than 100 feet behind the firing line. It was a mess and I've never forgotten it.

It was later determined the guy was shooting a self modified rifle with custom 'fire formed' ammo he had cooked up. That experience is the main reason I've never 'wild catted' or modified any gun to take a different cartridge. As an avid and long time reloader, I do experiment with various hand loads but always within 'book' limits. My experiments are limited to trying different components---bullets, powder, and primers.

My recommendation: If you want to shoot 22 WMR, buy a rifle made for that caliber.
 
I made a post a while back about a local idiot who wrapped 44 mag rounds with black plastic tape to fire in a Ruger 45 Colt caliber revolver. I wish now I'd taken pictures of what that gun looked like with the upper half of the cylinder blown off, the top of the frame bulged, and the barrel 'reset' at about a 10 degree angle pointing down. The shooter and his two buddies were damned lucky to suffer only minor burns and shrapnel wounds.
 
I made a post a while back about a local idiot who wrapped 44 mag rounds with black plastic tape to fire in a Ruger 45 Colt caliber revolver. I wish now I'd taken pictures of what that gun looked like with the upper half of the cylinder blown off, the top of the frame bulged, and the barrel 'reset' at about a 10 degree angle pointing down. The shooter and his two buddies were damned lucky to suffer only minor burns and shrapnel wounds.

OH my gosh!!:eek: What kind of a space cat would do that? I'm pretty sure that's why they stamp that stuff on the barrel of the gun
 
I personally know some people hurt from firing 380 ammo in both Makarovs and Nines. A 380 round's brass is about .020 inch (twenty thousands) smaller in diameter than a nine. When a 380 is fired in a 9mm chamber, the brass can't expand far enough to grip the chamber walls and will frequently split and eject hot gas, powder residue, etc., right into the shooter's hand and face.

In addition, a 380 bullet (called a 9mm kurtz (short) in Europe is .356 in diameter, a Makarov is .364, so firing a 380 in a Mak leaves even more room to split the brass.

Don't do it! Both Blade Forum and I want you here to post and in one undamaged piece......
 
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Scary stuff Old CW4. I inherited a sporterized Mauser Gewehr 98 stamped 1916 from my grandfather. Luckily I have a friend knowledgable in such things, since he pointed out that there are two different bores for 8mm Mauser. The older rifles had a "J" bore of .318 inches and the newer ones had an "S" bore of .323 inches. 1916 was a little too new for the J bore, but it didn't hurt to check. We took several castings of the barrel and found it to be a "S" bore rifle.
 
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