Bearings on Titanium - Press Fit Lock Bar Insert - Shirogorov Neon Zero

T

Tseg

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Aug 25, 2018
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Now that I have placed my order and am drilling into the deep web for any new knowledge of the Shirogorov Neon Zero as I await delivery I want to explore the 2 main cited "deficiencies" of this knife to see if they are potentially real or are hypothetical, like so many debates about super-steel qualities found in these forums.
  1. Multi-Row Bearings against titanium scale - unlike most/all other Shirogorov's, the MRBS bearings in the Neon Zero reportedly ride directly on the titanium scale vs. a steel washer. I get the theoretical concern that with enough wear this can lead to a loose blade or maybe grinding as a titanium groove emerges.
    1. Ball Bearings on titanium scales exist in other knifes. Has anyone in real life have a titanium groove emerge that was so pronounced it created issues with your knife from this design?
  2. Lock Bar Inserts press fit/glued - Some premium knives have a lock bar insert that can be swapped out when worn via a screw mechanism. How many people have ever worn out their steel lock bar insert, what was the knife, how long did it take and under what conditions?
    1. I understand in lower quality knives with lower quality steels and tolerances the lock bar lockup will migrate across the blade over time to the point the insert needs replaced to get the proper lock functionality again. Has anyone ever had this kind of wear with a higher end knife (in this case with M390 steel) where it needed repaired and how long did it take under what conditions?
Your real world experience would be valued. This knife will be an EDC, so lots of use but not particularly hard use. Lots of toying with it as I sit at my home office desk, or course.
 
I'd say hypothetical on both. I haven't been in the hobby as long as some but it's been a good couple years now. I've heard a lot of people complaining about this stuff but never hear about any real world examples of failures. No ball bearings wearing deep groves into ti. Quite the opposite actually with the Spyderco Advocate where the steel washers they added failed instead. I also think as long as your lock geometry is done right (Shiro does a pretty decent job of that), your lockup will be fine. Might migrate over a bit as it breaks in but it'll settle. If it gets to 100% that's more an issue with tolerances and geometry than it is with the lock interface.
 
ShadyMethods said:
I'd say hypothetical on both. I haven't been in the hobby as long as some but it's been a good couple years now. I've heard a lot of people complaining about this stuff but never hear about any real world examples of failures. No ball bearings wearing deep groves into ti. Quite the opposite actually with the Spyderco Advocate where the steel washers they added failed instead. I also think as long as your lock geometry is done right (Shiro does a pretty decent job of that), your lockup will be fine. Might migrate over a bit as it breaks in but it'll settle. If it gets to 100% that's more an issue with tolerances and geometry than it is with the lock interface.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. I'm thinking the same. Heck, my Sebenza doesn't even have steel lock bar inserts, rather carbodized titanium and while there are some reported cases from a few years ago of lock-stick (that I think has now been addressed with improved lock geometry) I'm not aware of a lock bar wearing out on a Sebenza. As far as a ball bearing... if working properly it should be rolling on surface, not wearing on a surface, so maybe a slight dent groove emerges over time, which actually would strengthen the Ti in the groove. I'm thinking if I administer proper maintenance - cleaning and lubricating, I should receive a lifetime of satisfaction.

But if there is real-world experience otherwise, I'm interested in hearing.
 
On shirogorov's mrbs the ti side has milled grooves that match the radius of the balls, this additionally helps disperse the force when tightening or lateral pressure is applied to the pivot. They have done testing that it can stand pretty high lateral loads with no issues.

And on the other questions...
  1. Yes I have seen grooves wear into ti by the bearing balls, which isn't in and of itself an issue. But the issue comes in if someone barely over tightens the pivot which can lead to dents in the ti causing action issues (which I've also seen).
  2. As far as the lock insert, yes I've seen 2 Shiro's to date that have had inserts loose and fall out. It is a concern that needs to be addressed.
Lastly, you forgot one of the other major things... The plunge/choil area. They need to extend the choil to clear the plunge so you don't nick it when sharpening.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
On shirogorov's mrbs the ti side has milled grooves that match the radius of the balls, this additionally helps disperse the force when tightening or lateral pressure is applied to the pivot. They have done testing that it can stand pretty high lateral loads with no issues.

And on the other questions...
  1. Yes I have seen grooves wear into ti by the bearing balls, which isn't in and of itself an issue. But the issue comes in if someone barely over tightens the pivot which can lead to dents in the ti causing action issues (which I've also seen).
  2. As far as the lock insert, yes I've seen 2 Shiro's to date that have had inserts loose and fall out. It is a concern that needs to be addressed.
Lastly, you forgot one of the other major things... The plunge/choil area. They need to extend the choil to clear the plunge so you don't nick it when sharpening.
Click to expand...
Great input. Thanks for your cautionary tale about over-tightening... makes sense. Since I hand sharpen hopefully I can work around the plunge/choil issue more safely. Your comment about the inserts is a bit concerning. How many Shirogorov's have you been exposed to? If 2 out of 10 I'm concerned.... if 2 out of 100 or 1000 I'm much less concerned.
 
I've only had 2 with issues. Hard to say how many have come through my hands, less than 100
 
The question would be this...how many press fit insert shiros have come through your hands REK Knives REK Knives ?
Personally i dont like press fit as i had one of the shiros that it fell out of.
Plus side is that REK Knives REK Knives can install a screw for you! :)
 
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