Bearings on titanium

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Nocturnal13

Joined
Apr 18, 2017
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Hey guys, I never really thought about this but recently saw a few people being concerned about having ball beearings running on titanium without a steel washer, like on most ZT's. What are your thoughts on this? And if problems occur are there any fixes possible?
Thanks
 
In high load applications like bicycle crank axles, hardened steel races are pressed onto Titanium axles. Titanium pedal axles have pressed on hardened steel races. The difference in hardness between the bearings and the Titanium is a recipe for failure under higher loads.
 
mD6n556h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mD6n556.jpg HD

Those silver little shavings on the bearing and on scale is titanium. The knife is super smooth and I'm not very concerned for it. I will fix it somehow if its needed, but there is a reason they put hard steel washers in.
Ceramic, in my case, is hard... Try to avoid overtightening
 
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craytab said:
This. I've had no issues with my ti bearing zts.

A bit of old news op. Lots of previous discussion on this top.
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Sorry I just recently heard about these complaints. I tried to search the forums but wasn't quite sure how to word it. But work hardening makes sense. I haven't heard of actual problems other than fear of future problems so I guess all will be fine. I really love ZT and just hope they last my life time haha. Thanks for help
 
I did however notice the 0462 has a steel washer on the CF side like the 0452cf but also has one on the titanium side. The only ZT I have seen with a washer on both sides.
 
Sergeua said:
mD6n556h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mD6n556.jpg HD

Those silver little shavings on the bearing and on scale is titanium. The knife is super smooth and I'm not very concerned for it. I will fix it somehow if its needed, but there is a reason they put hard steel washers in.
Ceramic, in my case, is hard... Try to avoid overtightening
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I guess with ceramic it might be worse but I'm pretty sure ZT uses steel bearings. What knife model is the one pictured?
 
Nocturnal13 said:
Sorry I just recently heard about these complaints. I tried to search the forums but wasn't quite sure how to word it. But work hardening makes sense. I haven't heard of actual problems other than fear of future problems so I guess all will be fine. I really love ZT and just hope they last my life time haha. Thanks for help
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I have balis that run bearings straight on the ti and they're all fine even after extended use (read abuse), and theres probably a lot more wear with a balisong than a framelock flipper.
 
Nocturnal13 said:
Sorry I just recently heard about these complaints. I tried to search the forums but wasn't quite sure how to word it. But work hardening makes sense. I haven't heard of actual problems other than fear of future problems so I guess all will be fine. I really love ZT and just hope they last my life time haha. Thanks for help
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No way does titanium work harden to anything like steel hardness, especially annealed 6al4v as used in handles,... and bearings chew up steel races, eventually. And what happens to those expensive precise clearances paid for, when the titanium "deforms" (more like a worn groove "deforms")?

It all depends on what somebody's idea of "lasts good enough" is....
as a retired aviation tech, I say it flatly is a terrible idea. Period. Anyone is free to argue, ...anyone is free also to resole their sneakers with waffles leftover from breakfast, the only difference between the two, being one of degree, where your wife's waffles may last a lot longer than mine.

They do not add the weight and expense of cages and races to machines for no reason at all. Wanting to believe them not required is not going to change the way the universe runs, or machines work....or don't work.
 
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mtngunr said:
No way does titanium work harden to anything like steel hardness, especially annealed 6al4v as used in handles,... and bearings chew up steel races, eventually. And what happens to those expensive precise clearances paid for, when the titanium "deforms" (more like a worn groove "deforms")?

It all depends on what somebody's idea of "lasts good enough" is....
as a retired aviation tech, I say it flatly is a terrible idea. Period. Anyone is free to argue, ...anyone is free also to resole their sneakers with waffles leftover from breakfast, the only difference between the two, being one of degree, where your wife's waffles may last a lot longer than mine.

They do not add the weight and expense of cages and races to machines for no reason at all. Wanting to believe them not required is not going to change the way the universe runs, or machines work....or don't work.
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I guess that all depends on if you're looking at this concept as a knife opening and closing smoothly, or an aviation part that rotates at high rpm for extended periods. Lasts good enough? I would think so.

The knives will be fine. It might be something the OP's great grandkids might be dealing with - their old fart great grandfather's old crappy knife doesn't open quite as smooth as it used to.
 
No issue for me and have multiple knives with ceramic on Ti.

That is exposure from Kalahari desert salt pans, coal dust in open cast and underground and sea environments.

If the tolerances are correct there should not be any issues in my experience.
 
It will wear in a track eventually. This could be fine or mess up the tolerances and centering.

If you over tighten you can create dimples in the titanium and ruin the action.

I avoid it entirely. Unless it is something must have.
 
Thanks for all the repleys. I see there are a lot of conflicting opinions but as there hasn't happened anything yet, I guess time will tell. I have wondered though, with the new Hinderer tri way pivot system if it isn't possible to get good fitting steel spacers to fill the gaps and use PB washers IF anything were to happen one day . Either way it could be a fun experiment just to see if it would work.

I don't mean using the Hinderer Tri way system on my ZT's. Just mean using the concept with hardware store steel spacers and ordering PB wahers aftermarket.
 
Sigh. After years of steel bearings on TI in hundreds of thousands of knives, where are all the failures?

Why have they not popped up repeatedly on this forum if it's occuring? I'll tell you why, IT'S A NON ISSUE PEOPLE KEEP CRYING ABOUT FOR NO FLIPPING (<---:D) REASON.

Sure a small track wears in and then the surface area of titanium the bearing is in contact with grows, resulting in the titanium resisting further deformation significantly more.

TL;DR

A small track wears in and then it mostly just stays that way.
 
Truthfully I agree. I am the type of person to think of something that might happen and need to plan for it. But I have only heard complaints about the problem in theory and it hasn't actualy happened. So all scientific reasons that it can happen aside, I will not let this bother me anymore.
 
Also I will count on my own experiences. Example, yesterday I disassembled my 0452cf to inspect the "groove" on the titanium side. This is the knife I have probably flipped the most. I have only had it for just under 2 years but I am the type of person that plays with my knives a lot. While watching TV or studying or whatever.

The lock up is surprisingly about 80% even with the steel insert. I am not sure how it was when I first got it (new) but there is a ring on the steel washer on the CF side as well as on the TI side but I cannot feel an actual groove. So I think the groove might hold up longer than some other things like lockup.
 
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