bears- run,hide, freeze,bamboozle, or pray?

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Jun 18, 2001
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members,

once met a guy who talked to a neurosurgeon from alaska. he had lots of cases where people would come in with punctures on their skulls from bear attacks. apparently, they like to just clamp onto your head and gnaw away. unlucky to those who got their nut cracked by x tons of PSI. apparently .44 magnums were just security blankets that didn't do much to deter a full grown adult wanting to use your noggin as a chew toy. any tips for encounters? just lookin for advice. i heard that a full grown can approach 35 mph in a dead run. that'll outrun a horse at times, let alone a bipedal primate.

toast
 
Wow, scary animal! What knife do you folks think would be best for fighting off a bear?

:) :) :) Please don't answer that!

The suggestion I've read is: if the attack is predatory, fight. If the attack is defensive, sit tight. Most but not all black bear attacks are predatory, so the advice is to fight them off in that case. Most but definitely not all brown bear attacks are defensive, so you'll usually stand your ground or lie motionless. But it's the behavior, and not the particular type of bear, that determines your course of action.

I've read many descriptions and analyses of bear attacks, and unfortunately, to this day I still can't always tell the difference between predatory and defensive behavior based on the descriptions. Some are obvious, like the griz who rips open your tent and hauls you out. But others aren't so obvious.
 
Wear an old fashion steel pot helmet and head butt him if he goes after your hair. Oh, and it helps if properly execute your will ahead of time. :)
 
Do your best to not get surprised (same as walking the city streets).
With that ... and knowing how to unsling the Marlin 450 from your shoulder ... your head won't get used as a chewtoy.
Then ... send me an email and offer me a couple claws :)
My beliefs include skinning and eatin' any animal that leaves brown tracks IN my shorts.


Mike
 
The only thing you have to remember:

You don't have to be able to run fast.
Just faster than the guy next to you.

Moral?
Don't hike alone. ;)
 
1. Let the bears know your there before they see you. You don't want to suprise them. Yell out while hiking, horn, ect.

2. Don't panic

3. Don't throw your pack away. Kept it on. It will act like body armor for your back. Bears are after you not your food.

4. Don't run. This is a submisve act. It shows weakness and the bear can run faster then you.

5. Don't climb. They do it better then you.

6. Do stand your ground.

7. Do make yourself look bigger. Arms up.

8. Do slowly back out of the situation.

9. If assault happens, lay down and play dead. Cover head with hands.

10. Carry mace

11. If you are attacked at night fight back. Unprovoked attacks mean they're out on the prowl looking for tasty humans.

I got this info from a survival show on the discover channel. They had park ranges ect. Also confirmed in small yellow book with other neat stuff in it.:D
 
Seems that OC spray (not mace) is the way to go:
http://www.udap.com/testify.htm
http://members.nbci.com/keithrogan/

Quite intersting these statements from hunting/wildlife pros:
>>>>>
http://www.bearsmag.com/articles/sharing.html
"If you're attacked, both Vance and Wiltse advocate using pepper spray. "It happens so quickly," said Vance, "you're more likely hit the bear with pepper spray because it makes such a wide swath; it's easier to hit the bear." Both outfitters feel so strongly about the spray, their guides and hunters carry it as the main line of defense against an attack. Make sure it is the ten percent concentrate, not the milder personal defense formula."

http://www.udap.com/testify.htm
"The bottom line is that too many bears are dying as a result of conflicts with humans. The truth is, guns have not proven very effective against repelling grizzly bears from attack, and we usually end up with a dead bear, and often, a mauled hunter. Officials from the WY Fish and Game Department
and MT Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks all recommend that hunters and other people in grizzly country use pepper spray as the first line of defense in a bear encounter. Dave Moody of WY Fish and Game Department said that in dozens of cases in the last 15 years, only once has a grizzly bear continued through pepper spray to attack the sprayer [through 1997], while noting that in the majority of cases in which a bear is shot, the shooter is still reached by the bear. For the most part, I think [pistols] are totally useless in a bear attack, Moody told the Casper Star Tribune last fall. --
Tim Stevens, Grizzly Mortality: Alarming and Avoidable, Greater Yellowstone
Report 1997"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
When I lived in Kodiak (home of the brown bear) we had a little joke about what the best gun to have in case of bear attack was. The answer, 22 pistol. When the bear attacks, shoot you partner in the foot so you can outrun him.:)
 
hey,

thanks for the replies! lots of great tips. i didn't know hunters/backpackers were using OC. i guess that goes into the kit bag.

i heard that firearms just aren't affective against the larger ones. even the venerable .44. one account i heard was a lucky shot in the grizzly's face at REALLY close range, probably enough for powder in the bear's eyes, other than that, you're a chew toy.

i always thought that bear attacks were initiated by only a few things: surprise, territoriality, the presence of food, and threat to cubs. mother bears are aggresive, surprised bears are aggressive, but a random encounter and a hungry wanderer are avoided pretty easily.

i guess these days they're just plain unpredictable and they should always be treated with caution. i didn't realize that the attacks come so unexpectedly. it's like "Oo, a bear." and then "Arrrgh!" Man, that'll keep you wary in the woods.

toast
 
Get a copy of Doug Peacock's <I>Grizzly Years</I>. He's a Viet Nam vet who has spent more time on the ground with Grizzly bears than anybody outside the professional wildlife biologist community.

db
 
I spent 45 minutes yesterday morning writing you a response, and then it disappeared into the void! Very annoying. Anyway...

There's more that you need to know on this subject than you are going to get in few posts here. You should get copy of the best book on the subject, Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance, by Stephen Herrero. You might also be interested in Alaska Bear Tales, by Larry Kaniut.

Only a brown bear is going to be big enough to get its jaws around your head. Even then, it would need to be an unusually large bear. The only place that you're likely to encounter them that big is Alaska, and even there, that would require a larger than normal bear. It happens, but it's not something you need to worry a lot about. I'd be much more concerned about a bear decapitating me or eviscerating me with one swipe of the paw, or biting my face off, than clamping it's jaws around my skull.

Bears can run 35 mph, much faster than a human. Thus, running is probably futile. Worse, it can can trigger an instinctive predatory response.

Guns tend to be a poor choice for bears, and especially brown bears (grizzly bears), for several reasons: 1) bears have thick skulls, and bullets often bounce off or lodge in their skulls before reaching their brains; 2) bears have tough hides and thick fat layers, which often stop bullets before they reach vital organs; 3) brown bears are so tough that they are likely to continue attacking after they have received several fatal gunshots. If you do try to shoot a charging bear, you're supposed to aim for the clavicle (the front of the shoulder), to stop the bear's ability to charge. Good luck.

Bear repellent (pepper spray, but not the same as the little cannisters you get for dealing with people) is considered a highly effective method of of deterring attacking bears.

You need to be able to tell the difference between a black bear (Ursus Americanus) and a brown bear (Ursus Arctos Horribilis), because they have very different behaviors. Despite their names, either kind can be either black or brown, or even blond, or sometimes auburn. Besides the fact that brown bears are much larger than black bears, there are numerous tell-tale differences. Brown bears have much larger claws, which visibly protrude out of their paws, as long a fingers. Brown bears have a prominent shoulder hump which blacks do not. Brown bears have more rounded ears, set wider apart. Brown bears have a more scalloped snout shape than black bears.

When black bears attack people, it is likely to be either an adolescent newly on it's own and experimenting, or a very old or sick starving bear, thinking you look like easy pickings. Black bears attacks should be assumed as predaceous; and you should certainly fight back against a black bear that hopes to eat you. Also, black bears are usually rather timid animals, and are likely to back off if they meet a lot of resistance.

Brown bears rarely attempt to prey on humans. When they attack, it is generally because they see you as a threat, and they feel the need to defend themselves. Thus, fighting back is going to make the bear continue to perceive you as a threat. Don't even look at it's eyes, which it could perceive as aggressive. With brown bears, you are supposed to play dead. By doing so, you can often convince the bears that you are no longer a threat, at which point, they'll leave you alone.

There is a particular posture that is considered best for playing dead while experiencing the brunt of a bear attack. You should kneel down, lean forward and tuck your head against your knees, and interlock your fingers behind your neck. This exposes the muscles and bones of your back to the bear, instead of exposing your vital organs.

Of course, what you should really try to do is prevent a hostile bear encounter, in the first place. Learn what sort of areas are likely to attract bears, such as berry patches and fishing holes and bear trails, and stay away. Learn to recognize their footprints, tree markings, feces, and other signs, and learn to tell how fresh they are, to know when you are entering an area with a brown bear (at which point you should leave immmediately). Make sure to make enough noise that the bears can hear you in advance and have time to leave. (Surprised bears are likely to feel defensive; alerted bears would usually rather leave and avoid trouble.). Make sure your camp, clothes, and sleeping gear have no food scent. Also, understand the circumstances that are likely to make a bear feel especially defensive, such as a mother with young cubs, or a bear at a carcass. Stay in a group of several people; bears would almost always choose to flee rather than attack a group.

Remember that these are just generalizations. Bears are smart animals with their own personalities and behaviors.

And to end with a joke: How do you tell the difference between a black bear and a grizzly? When you climb up a tree, a black bear climbs up after you, while a grizzly knocks the tree down.
 
All of the preceding replies contain excellent information. However, if pepper spray fails and you must resort to a firearm, Buffalo Bore makes some incredible sledgehammer loads for modern 45-70's. They've stopped Cape Buffalo and Griz, when placed correctly. There's also the well-respected 3 inch magnum Rottweil Brenneke slug out of a 12 gauge shotgun. If you must use a 44 pistol, Cor Bon produces 305 and 320 grain hard-cast penetrator loads on which hunters have made favorable reports. I personally carry a revolver chambered in 500 Linebaugh as my backup in Alaska (and would never want to use it unless pepper spray or a rifle/shotgun were not options).

With regard to bear speed, I saw a nature show in which some Denali rangers supposedly clocked a brief Griz sprint at 43 mph!

I think that the most serious bear sprays are manufactured by Guard of Alaska. Longest range and highest heat rating. I'll check to see if I can find their website. (Revision: I just checked and their site is www.guardalaska.com).

I agree that Doug Peacock's Grizzly Years is great reading on the subject.

DPD.
 
I agree, S. Herrero's book is great! It also points out how unlikely a bear attack actually is. I have encountered many bears in the wild, and while curious, making myself look large or grouping with others instantly deterred them. They often return, however! Usually it's at night, too, so the plan of attack that has always worked was a bright flashlight. Noise makers, whistles, and firecrackers have never worked for me, so in order to send a particularily snoopy black bear running, my tentmate and I were going to try and run him off or pepper spray him, but as we left our tent I caught him in the eyes with my Bucklight, and he bolted into the bush (w/ my pack in his mouth...THIEF!) never to return. I have the opportunity to try the flashlight on three other blacks, and the results have been the same. Only encountered a couple of browns so far, and they have always been brief. They just turn and leave.

As far as the best gun? Pump shotgun with rifled slugs, without a doubt! Lots of knock down power, and quick follow-up. Often use to dispatch troublesome Griz and Polar bears. Personally, I still like the Marlin levers, though.

The biggest problem when shooting a charging bear would be panicking too much to aim at vitals. This is another reason pepper spray is often the best choice - just point and shoot. Plus, if you shoot yourself, it's rough, but not as bad as a .450! :D

Jet
 
Regarding the comment that you haven't had much luck with noisemakers, whistles, and firecrackers:

I believe the latest thinking is that bears hear this stuff just fine, but do not recognize it as sounding like noises which come from animals. It sounds to them like some odd noise of inanimate origin; and they only shy away when they hear something that sounds like it emanated from an animal. Talking with your friends or singing to yourself is supposed to be more effective.

I just have to throw in a little anecdote involving my ex: When she was hiking the Pacific Crest Trail, she camped open under the stars one night at Kennedy Meadows. She was awoken by a black bear, which had its open mouth over her foot. She jerked and shouted, and the bear bit the sleeping bag off of her and the sock right off of her foot, then ran off into the night with her sleeping bag and sock.

She chased after it! She tracked it down and got her sleeping bag back.

Damn, she's one tough lady!
 
Jimmy the Jet is right about the bright lights being useful. On my Mossberg 590 Mariner pump shotgun I have a Surefire 9 volt forend with the optional super high output lamp module. It will practically cook hotdogs on a wall across the room. Nothing with eyes likes having it shined at them!

DPD.
 
There was an article in BackPacker magazine several years back that mentioned using flares. I guess the idea was to create an unmistakable threat display to the bear. A high speed ball of fire headed at you would do that I bet. :D
 
Helen Thayer wrote a book called <I>Polar Dream</I> about becoming the first woman to to travel solo to the magnetic North Pole.

Her biggest concern <B>should have been</B> Polar Bears: she was persuaded to take a dog with her on the trip. The dog acts as an early warning device, and made it unnecessary for her to shoot any bears. Good book.

Maybe applicable to other bears?

db
 
When I was vacationing in the lovely town of Deadhorse at Prudhoe Bay, I met a Polar Bear researcher who had spent a LOT of time in the Arctic, including several winters at the research station on Svalbard (probably spelling that way wrong) northwest of Norway. They had two Karelian Bear Hounds (probably spelling that wrong too) to keep off the Polar Bears. He said he couldn't recall ever having to fire a warning shot.

The dogs have been featured on Discovery Channel and Learning Channel. They use them in some U.S. parks for bear aversion therapy. I heard that there are a couple breeders in Alaska. When I make my move there next year, I am definitely going to look into getting & training a couple. Far better for both the people and the bears than a lot of the alternatives.

On the subject of shotgun slugs, I'd like to strongly recommend against using Foster type slugs in bear country. These are the most commonly available. They are relatively lightly constructed, sort of like a flying mushroom cap. They are adequate for thin-skinned game like deer, but everything I've been told and read indicates that they will not bust through heavy muscle and bone like the Brennekes or certain copper sabot loads. One of my friends conducted his own penetration tests to confirm this. My only complaint about the sabots is that they often don't carry quite as much energy at close range and don't have as large a frontal area to generate shock. However, the copper solids are reputed to be good for penetration. I know some guys who alternate them (every other shell) in their magazine tube with Brennekes.

DPD.
 
Dogs and bears don't mix. You take your dog camping with you and it hears a bear, it goes to fight /investigate, it finds something bigger and meaner than it ever will be(bear of your choice) and it runs back to the safety of it's master. Bringing the pissed off bear straight to you.
Best weapon for bears at bad breath distance:12 guage shotgun.
1st and 2nd rounds- buckshot-aim for the face,your trying to hit the eyes and blind it.
3rd round-slug, break the shoulders
4th buckshot to the face again
5th another slug to the shoulders
re-load if you have to and put all slug in, move to the side of the blind immoble bear and blast away at its flank.
Don't bother trying to hit the heart it's only beating about less than 10 beats a min. shoot out it's heart and it will kill you and your buddies before it bleeds to death.
If your out with a female and she is menstruating, think twice and maybe go another day. A hunting bear will pick up here scent and track her down.
A Griz is smarter than a trained German Sheperd and will circle around and hunt the hunter stalking it.
Myself and one other guy were asked to remove a very freshly killed mother moose which was near the living area on our post in Alaska before the Griz could come back and claim it(It had aleady killed and ran off with about a 400-500 lbs calf the female was trying to protect) The bear we could see as we were cutting her up and putting her on a trailer with one swipe tore her throat almost off, hit her so hard in the ribs it broke 4-5 of them and drove them into her heart. and with another hit broke her shoulder blade.
We VERY quickly cut her into quarters and moved her way deep into the woods off post. Never saw the bear.
 
Another excellent book on bears and grizzlies specifically is Gary Shelton's Bear Encounter Survival Guide. Gary has lived with grizzlies in the Bella Coola valey and is one of the few people I would walk in front of if he was carrying a loaded rifle. I met him years ago when living in Bella Coola and hunted with him on occasion. Gary conducts seminars on how to deal with bears for a wide variety of professional groups and is highly respected. The ISBN is 0-9698099-0-5 (soft cover).
 
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