Beautiful hamon without clay.

Rick Marchand

Rick Marchand

Donkey on the Edge
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This was a first for me. The bladesmith gets the active hamon he was shooting for without using clay. Cool

[video=youtube;o_voOugYgag]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_voOugYgag[/video]
 
Nice! That was an awesome video. I have been attempting this myself. (of course not a choji hamon, just any kind of hamon without clay)

I partially blame you Rick, ever since I watched the Wally Hayes katana video I have been trying all sorts of fun stuff! :D
 
Fantastic, thanks for posting that.
I especially liked the fact that he used those old nails as a source of raw material.

Shame the narrator sounded like he was narrating a children's programme....
 
Incredible. How's it work, getting a hamon with a method that seems like there isn't any differential hardening?
 
A hamon is the transition line between the austenite that converted to martensite, and the austenite that converted into pearlite. Clay helps us get this line, because most of the steels we use are shallow hardening, but still have some alloy ingredients ( specifically Mn). The Japanese smith working tamahagane has about the most perfect shallow hardening steel there is. Basically around 1.0% carbon and 99% iron. The thickness of the spine is more than enough thermal mass to keep the spine and a good part of the bevels in the pearlite nose. The thinner edge just barely misses the nose and becomes super-cooled austenite, and then martensite. The trick is all in the speed of the quench, and the timing of the in-out dips.

Working with W1 ,W2, or 1095 is a far different thing, and you will need you old friend - Clay - to help.
 
I didn't see him do an in out dips plural Stacy, one dip then out.

I think the main trick he uses is the location of certain heats, as has been outlined in a couple books.
 
Thanks for the link Rick... cool video.
I've gotten a basic hamon without clay... seems to just be a function of temp, location of applied temp, time and blade geometry... but I would have never imagined getting a complex hamon like the one shown in the video. I imagine -- like Stacy pointed out -- that the simple nature of his steel played a big role... but there's no doubt that Sugita has mad skills.
 
I find Sugita endearing because he is a "traditional" swordsmith who uses a combination of ancient and modern means to achieve his goal. (ie. power hammer and 2x72)
 
Very cool video. I particularly like the comment about the nails seeming like they might create too dark a pattern. That's knowing your material when you can tell by how it forges and how it looks what the contrast in the polish is going to produce.

As far as hamons without clay, take a look back at Nick Wheeler's Paranee fighters. He was getting nice active hamons without clay. To paraphrase Don Fogg as I understood it, using clay is more about influencing pattern rather than a strict thermal barrier. The real expertise is in proper controlled heat.

I'm thinking that without clay, the folding process and the grain pattern must be what's influencing the hamon pattern.

Definitely interesting.. might have to try something in W2 without clay and see what happens.
 
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Simply amazing. I am deffinitly in awe of the traditional masters of the craft.

Funny, as I was watching this on my phone just now one of my employees walked up right as he was about to quench it, and when he heard the quench he asked "wha the hell was that, they making a light saber?!" All I could say was, "well, yes, they kind of are!" I didn't realize it but it does sound like a star wars futuristic gun/sword fight when its quenched.


-Xander
 
Ichimonji = no clay.. Check out Pavel Bolf, he does this regularly and uses nails in his orishigane.

katana_9-15_cepel_700x665.jpg


post-32711-13297597280421.jpg
 
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Interesting stuff. I'd love to see a chemical analysis on that steel, as well as the water/brine he's quenching in... just because I'm geeky that way. :)
 
I have done this with 1095 and w2. not too big a deal just watch your heat carefully. But after watching this video and failing to acheive the hamon I wanted toioght with clay and my own tamahagne I just reheated and re quenched and viola initial inspection showed something that could be pretty cool. won't know until tomorrow. they are in the tempering oven right now. One sword I ended up quenching six or eight times I kinda lost track with all the cussing that was going on in the shop. it was very distracting and I was the only one in there.:confused:
 
Bill Burke said:
I have done this with 1095 and w2. not too big a deal just watch your heat carefully. But after watching this video and failing to acheive the hamon I wanted toioght with clay and my own tamahagne I just reheated and re quenched and viola initial inspection showed something that could be pretty cool. won't know until tomorrow. they are in the tempering oven right now. One sword I ended up quenching six or eight times I kinda lost track with all the cussing that was going on in the shop. it was very distracting and I was the only one in there.:confused:
Click to expand...

Though I haven't done the no clay hamon I have done the hamon dance before, or should I say lack of hamon dance. Been there done that one Bill. It can be so frustrating I want to give up, but then when I nail it it makes it all worth while.
 
Detail of 2:13 from a full version, sorry for lowest quality of translation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OSI_-ZJWTM#t=1m55s


古釘の鉄を10回ほど折り重ね、鍛錬した後、杉田さんは、現代の鉄である玉鋼を、全体の3割ほど加える決断をしました。
Sugita decided to add tamahagane into 200yrs old nails that were found from temple, after 10 times folding. Tamahagane would be 30%.

玉鋼は、これまで杉田さんが刀造りに用いてきた、現代の鉄です。
Tamahagane is a modern steel what he has ever used.

熱に対する反応がよく、明るい刃文が出やすいと、杉田さんは感じてきました。
Sugita have feeled that tamahagane reacts well to heat, and tend to form bright hamon.

古釘の鉄に、これまでにない粘り強さを感じつつも、刃文の色が暗くなる危惧を抱いた杉田さん。
Old nails were tough for him, that was he have not ever experienced, but he was also afraid that it would form darkened hamon.

ここで、玉鋼を3割混ぜることで、古釘の粘り強さと、玉鋼の仕上がり?のよさを兼ね備えた鉄になるのではないかと、にらんだのです。
So he added tamahagane to get both advantage, toughness of old nails and finish of tamahagene.

「まあ、やってないからはっきりわからないんだけど、刃が沈むとかね、沈むというのはちょっと暗くなるっていうかね、になるような気がするんです。
"It's not clear because I have not ever tried yet, but the blade of 100% nail might sink -- that means hamon would be dark a little -- , this is I am worrying about.

それでまあ100%はやめて、7:3くらいならまず、その、もし悪いところがあってもまたカバーできるんじゃないか、
So I'll end up to use 100% old spikes and start from 30% tamahagane and 70% old nails.
I hope I can cover/fix when something wrong would be happened,

そしていいところはいいところで残ってくるんじゃないか、ていうところでそれくらいに取ってるんですね」
and something good would still remain/stay as good.... that's why I chose 7:3."

古釘の鉄と玉鋼を重ね合わせた鉄を、さらに鍛錬していきます。
Old nails and tamahagane are laminated, and continued to be folded again.

性質の異なる鉄を混ぜると、鉄が反発し合い、疵が出る可能性が高まります。
Mixing/Laminating different materials would cause repulsion? and faults of the blade.

これまで以上に、慎重な作業が求められます。
More careful work would be needed.

「疵が出ないようにしっかり沸かすっていう、沸かすっていうのは十分に温度をかけてやる、なかでね、
"Boil it firmly not to remain/make faults -- wakashi(沸かし) means to add enough heat to subject -- , during this process,

この辺で膨れとかいう疵が出るとなかなか大変なんで、しっかり疵の出ないように沸かすっていうことが大切」
hukure would be a severe situation for example, so this process must be done firmly not to make faults, it's an important thing"


His other works
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~sugitat/page044.html
http://www.justmystage.com/home/syouji3/10-1tanntou.html


Thank you for sharing!
 
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