"Beefier" Shaman vs. PM2 vs. Manix 2 Back Lock (Secondary Question)

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Sharperthansticks

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I opened a thread earlier today about the Shaman vs. the PM2 vs. the back lock Manix 2. This is a secondary thread, because this question is related but different:

When people say the Shaman is "beefier, " what exactly do they mean? More specifically, can you describe a situation that would not be appropriate for a PM2 (or a back lock Manix 2) but would be appropriate for a Shaman? Would the PM2 be damaged? If not, how is the scenario inappropriate for the PM2 but appropriate for the Shaman? Without a specific example, a general description of "beefier" isn't convincing enough to me.
 
If you look at the blades you’ll see that one is thicker than the others. It might be that the thicker one wouldn’t break as easy, especially at the tip. If I were to stab an imaginary mall ninja with the PM2, the tip might break if I hit too many bones in a frantic rush to get to the next sale. If I were to stab the same imaginary mall ninja with the thicker/beefier blade, I might be able to get to the next sale faster.
 
ScooterG said:
If you look at the blades you’ll see that one is thicker than the others. It might be that the thicker one wouldn’t break as easy, especially at the tip. If I were to stab an imaginary mall ninja with the PM2, the tip might break if I hit too many bones in a frantic rush to get to the next sale. If I were to stab the same imaginary mall ninja with the thicker/beefier blade, I might be able to get to the next sale faster.
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That is an interesting use case, and it certainly answers the question. That being said, I don't anticipate many stabbings in my future, so I am hoping for alternate answers in the realms of food prep, home improvement tasks, cardboard and rope cutting, crafting, and outdoors tasks.
 
Thinner blades will slice through damn near all materials better than a thicker stock blade. Food prep, cardboard, and rope cuts would be better dealt with using a thinner blade.

A thick stock blade should be more stable and durable(tougher). For home improvement jobs or most outdoors activities a thicker blade would be preferable.

It really goes both ways, though. You can use a thick blade for food prep and a thin blade as an outdoors knife. If you aren't a fool and hold some common sense you shouldn't run into problems with either choice. Obviously they aren't prybars or axes.
 
ScooterG said:
If you look at the blades you’ll see that one is thicker than the others. It might be that the thicker one wouldn’t break as easy, especially at the tip. If I were to stab an imaginary mall ninja with the PM2, the tip might break if I hit too many bones in a frantic rush to get to the next sale. If I were to stab the same imaginary mall ninja with the thicker/beefier blade, I might be able to get to the next sale faster.
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I’ve found the military to be just the right length and strength for stabbing or slashing imaginary mall ninjas. I know the shaman is a nice thick blade, but I’m gonna hold off buying one until it’s available in s110v or cruwear.
 
Yonose said:
I’ve found the military to be just the right length and strength for stabbing or slashing imaginary mall ninjas. I know the shaman is a nice thick blade, but I’m gonna hold off buying one until it’s available in s110v or cruwear.
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I hear ya on that and am wanting either M4 or Cruwear next. Sal mentioned that an S90 with CF might be the first Sprint/Exclusive though. I went ahead and got the Shaman in S30 as I couldn’t find anything wrong the S30 version...just a great blade.
 
Again, I am wondering about a specific non-human-stabbing case where one knife will fail and the Shaman will not, because if neither will fail, I'd generally go for the thinner blade.
 
I would only stab imaginary mall ninjas. How about prying a car door off the hinge? The possibilities are endless!
 
Sharperthansticks said:
Sounds like a good way to ruin an expensive knife. Wouldn't a pry bar be cheaper and more effective? :)
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Most definitely, by me a good us made prybar can be had for ~$15. The shaman is 10x’s that! In all seriousness though, since I don’t own one but intend to buy one, what draws me to it is the high thick saber grind, which is fine for cutting smaller things quickly and hopefully won’t break if twisting occurs or lateral force is applied.
 
Sharperthansticks said:
Again, I am wondering about a specific non-human-stabbing case where one knife will fail and the Shaman will not, because if neither will fail, I'd generally go for the thinner blade.
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Me too, for the thinner blade, if you consider a Millie / Para blade to be "thinner". It's thinner than my XM-18 blade, anyway. I've used a Military in a home remodel. We used it to score drywall and to bore a hole or two through the drywall. The tip is fine. I've used Paras and Para 2s as camping knives for food prep, whittling, fuzz sticks, cutting paracord, etc. None of them have been damaged by the use I've given them. I don't baton them or clear a heavily wooded camping site with them, but they work fine for any task I'd do with a folder.

I'd guess "beefier" in many folks' opinion refers both to the blade/tip thickness and the handle size/weight.
 
PM2 is more EDC than the other two. Shaman is beefier than than the Manix 2. The thing is Sal won't make a sharpened pry bar. They all cut like a MFer. Shaman has thicker lock and pivot. Manix 2 is still a tough EDC knife and only a jackhole would break one. The PM2 is more Delica on steroids. Strength is Shaman>Manix 2>PM2 but for EDC PM2>Manix 2>Shaman or at least by most people's standards. Shaman has the potential to replace a fixed blade. The other 2 do not
 
"Beefier, beefier, beefier." Besides the use cases of stabbing someone and prying a door handle (the latter of which is not really a knife use case, if you ask me), no one has said specific cases where the PM2 or Manix would break but the Shaman would not. Can we get all the beefiers out of our system and just answer that specific question? :-)
 
Even though the answers you have got were tongue and cheek type answers I believe in this case the lack of an answer is the answer. Each knife will perform cutting tasks equally for the majority of users. Between the three models you have listed, it would come down to personal preferences on grip, comfort / ergonomics and blade geometry. Without giving any context on what beefier is or defining the tasks you would be concerned about putting the knives through it will be impossible to satisfy you with any response. Mostly it will come down to feel and personal preference.
 
Seems like you want the Shaman, so get the Shaman. Most people don't abuse their knives, and hopefully you don't either. PM2 is most prone to breaking due to the thinner stock and the tip in particular, but that doesn't mean it will fail or break definitively from proper use.

I will tell you that between my PM2 and Manix 2 (standard G-10 version), the Manix was more comfortable in the hand, specifically it was a larger handle ("beefier") and filled my grip more which I like. The Manix also felt a lot more solid in its lockup. On behalf of the PM2 though, I really enjoy fidgeting with the compression lock.

I don't own a Shaman but I had a Native 5, the smaller predecessor to the Shaman. The handle was comfortable but the grip seemed awkward since it favored the choil for a full finger grip. The blade stock was also robust and it felt like a little tank. I imagine the Shaman only emphasizes this, with the had looking to be more neutral gripped.

In conclusion if you want a general purpose EDC blade that is well regarded, the PM2 is tried and true. If you're concerned about tip breakage, consider a Manix 2. The Shaman may be overkill but will likely get the job done.
 
When people say that the Shaman is "beefy", they're referring to the overall robust nature of the knife. It has a robust handle, lock, pivot and blade. In theory, that makes it well suited for users who intend to do a lot of heavy cutting. The blade and action can endure that cutting, and the "beefy" contoured handle makes it a comfortable experience.

When would I recommend the Shaman to someone over the PM2 or Manix2? I would recommend it if I knew that someone goes really hard on his knives. For instance, if I had a friend in construction, and I knew that he was very demanding of his knives, I would probably recommend the Shaman. I would also recommend it to someone who does a lot of heavy cutting and would benefit from the comfortable handle. And of course, I would recommend it to someone who just likes big "beefy" knives.

Some of this is splitting hairs though. All three knives are plenty robust, and all three knives cut well. The PM2 does have a fine tip that is more prone to breakage if dropped or abused. Also, its handle will be less comfortable during long sessions of heavy cutting. In contrast, it is very comfortable to carry, and it is a mean slicer.

In my opinion, a sensible user who places reasonable demands on his knives can't go wrong with any of these three options. It's a matter of preference.
 
Sharperthansticks said:
That is an interesting use case, and it certainly answers the question. That being said, I don't anticipate many stabbings in my future, so I am hoping for alternate answers in the realms of food prep, home improvement tasks, cardboard and rope cutting, crafting, and outdoors tasks.
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It does answer those questions. It's thicker. Which means it doesn't slice as well as something thinner. You opened a whole thread on the subject earlier.

Now the "as well" and how that applies to the tasks you are talking about is your call. Again, if you use knives you will get a feel for your preferences in actual use.

We really can't tell you if a knife is too thick for you to use during food prep.

Again, as I suggested earlier, go and use knives. That will answer the questions you have been posing.
 
Also, a knife that one uses for food prep is probably not the same as one uses for outdoors and home improvement tasks...

Use knives to do things. Then you learn what properties you like for a specific task.
 
I think I can do pretty well any cutting chore with my Para 2. Prying I'll leave to my Blackjack Campanion.
 
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