Before there were diamond plates...

[williamsld8]

I have done some searching and found a few potential answers, but due to lack of certainty here I am posting.

I am under the assumption that carbodundum (silicon carbide, SiC, Crystolon, etc.) stones have been around longer than diamond impregnated plates.

I am wondering how these stones were flattened/lapped/dressed or what have you before the arrival of diamond plates made this fast and easy. What methods and materials were used? I'm highly confused, because although any silicon carbide material (being harder than aluminum oxide aka corundum) can be used to flatten/lap/dress corundum stones whether it be loose grit, grit paper, the side of a masonry chop-saw blade as I've seen a member suggest, it's my understanding that using SiC to try to flatten SiC is an exercise in futility.

I have personally attempted the sidewalk method, the cinder block method, the loose grit and grit paper method, and the diamond plate method, with all but the diamonds yielding only a clogged/glazed stone still dished, and the method material in disarray and non-working condition. Now, I know a flat carborundum stone will flatten the aluminum oxide stone, but what did they use to get the carbodundums flat if diamond plates weren't available, and using that material against itself failed to yield results?

I've even attempted rubbing two SiC's together, which only resulted in the glazing of the portions that made contact with each other.

Just to be clear, in case I have I have masked my actual question, how did carborundum stone users flatten their stones before diamonds were available? That is truly the heart of what's going through my head. Any input on my anecdotal rant is purely a bonus.

Perhaps I'm the minority and this has not been the experience of anybody else, but it is what it is. I guess you could say my mileage has varied. If anybody knows how it used to be done, I would love to know. If this has been answered before and I failed to find it, simply point me that way and you have my apologies. Thank you for your time and have a great evening.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Properly lubricated, a carborundum stone will cut another carborundum.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

I think in order for a non-diamond flattener to work, it needs either:
a. large (much larger than the target stone) abrasives embedded/sintered in strong binder
b. structured from solid SiC (or Alumina+SiC) slab - i.e. cut grooves/hatch pattern

The job of the flattener is to plough the target stone surface, eventually the target surface flat against the flattener. When the flattener abraded/fractured the target abrasives instead of plough the surface, usually target clogged/glazed is the result.

 

[williamsld8]

Thank you Bill. In that case, after boiling to remove old oil, is water enough lubrication to allow the cutting? I'm trying to stay away from oil.

Bluntcut, so a carborundum cross-hatched flattening plate of much larger grit would plow the finer grit stone, but not another carborundum of equivalent grit, correct?

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Bluntcut, so a carborundum cross-hatched flattening plate of much larger grit would plow the finer grit stone, but not another carborundum of equivalent grit, correct?

Yes - larger structure is stronger. Also the flattener abrasives ideally should be hard-embedded (stronger binder than target).

sideway - umm when I've a chance I will try flatten my Norton SiC C/F stone using a 60 or 36 grit ceramic belt.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Nothing. I just threw them out when they got too dished to work.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I have done some searching and found a few potential answers, but due to lack of certainty here I am posting.

I am under the assumption that carbodundum (silicon carbide, SiC, Crystolon, etc.) stones have been around longer than diamond impregnated plates.

I am wondering how these stones were flattened/lapped/dressed or what have you before the arrival of diamond plates made this fast and easy. What methods and materials were used? I'm highly confused, because although any silicon carbide material (being harder than aluminum oxide aka corundum) can be used to flatten/lap/dress corundum stones whether it be loose grit, grit paper, the side of a masonry chop-saw blade as I've seen a member suggest, it's my understanding that using SiC to try to flatten SiC is an exercise in futility.

I have personally attempted the sidewalk method, the cinder block method, the loose grit and grit paper method, and the diamond plate method, with all but the diamonds yielding only a clogged/glazed stone still dished, and the method material in disarray and non-working condition. Now, I know a flat carborundum stone will flatten the aluminum oxide stone, but what did they use to get the carbodundums flat if diamond plates weren't available, and using that material against itself failed to yield results?

I've even attempted rubbing two SiC's together, which only resulted in the glazing of the portions that made contact with each other.

Just to be clear, in case I have I have masked my actual question, how did carborundum stone users flatten their stones before diamonds were available? That is truly the heart of what's going through my head. Any input on my anecdotal rant is purely a bonus.

Perhaps I'm the minority and this has not been the experience of anybody else, but it is what it is. I guess you could say my mileage has varied. If anybody knows how it used to be done, I would love to know. If this has been answered before and I failed to find it, simply point me that way and you have my apologies. Thank you for your time and have a great evening.

You need a loose grit and some lubricant. Dish soap and some 120 grit loose silicon carbide powder will make both stones flatten out if done properly. You can also use another hard, flat stone or sidewalk, but the common denominator is the loose grit and plenty of it. Otherwise you're sure to glaze the stone. I've only ever used silicon carbide grit, but imagine blasting sand should work too. You're really trying to go after the binder, not the abrasive. Have flattened many a SiC stone and wouldn't dream of using a diamond plate.

 

[David Martin]

I agree ^ and would not use a diamond plate to flatten/ level my SiC or India stones. As it will ruin the diamond stone. DM

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Thank you Bill. In that case, after boiling to remove old oil, is water enough lubrication to allow the cutting? I'm trying to stay away from oil.

Bluntcut, so a carborundum cross-hatched flattening plate of much larger grit would plow the finer grit stone, but not another carborundum of equivalent grit, correct?

I can't answer that, as I have never tried it. I do know that grit size doesn't matter. The jeweler that trained me suggested that when he bought expensive stones, he would have them cut in half and lap the pieces against each other to flatten them.

 

[hunter s thompson]

Most of the really old oil stones you see were probably never flattened, a lot of the old timers would have thought us knife knuts insane, they sharpened their knives dished their stones rinse, wash, repeat. I have seen some old stones that have 2 grits on them with one grit ground completely through too the backside of the other grit.