Beginner going camping for 3days 2 nights with "unprepared" partners

calyth

calyth

#!/bin/sh of a man
Joined
Feb 23, 2002
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I'm not overly worried about how unprepared they are because I'll be prepared myself, and what I need from my fellow forumites is to tell me what else do i need or any other suggestions ;) I'm sure I can count on you guys.
There will be at least 5 people going to camp
We'll be bringing the following: (equipment that I have will be indicated by *)
knives *
5 people tent (perhaps someone is bringing another one)
Rope *
waterproof matches/magnesium firestarter *
Heat tablets *
Lighter & fluid & wick & flint *
water bags for all
snacks *
utencils (I have spoons, will bring metal forks)
clothing, toothbrush *
bug repellent, disinfectant handwash *
sleeping bag * & air mattress
Maglites * & lanterns *
portable stove (could bring one, not very compact though)
Chem lightsticks *
space blanket *
sunscreen *
hatchet *& shovel *
first aid kit *

Please advise me on what I'll need or what I could ditch ;)
Also, what kind of foods should we bring?
canned food? dried food? instant noodles? (the last one was more like a joke)
I got 3 MRE for backup, but none of them are expected to bring any backup food for themselves.
 
Car camping, or hiking in? How far if hiking?

What area are you camping in? Campground, woods, desert?
 
take more shelter.

if a manufacturer says a tent holds 5, it will be a
very tight fit with 5 adults.
 
How about compass/map/GPS if you don't know the territory very well. Snacks are fine but what are you going to do for more substantial meals?

I only add these questions for now because we still don't know how you are planning to travel cross country, etc.
 
We're hiking.
The "campground" have no fresh running water, no bathroom, no shower. I believe it would be a wooded place with a stream / creek.
I'll get my hands on a local map, and yes I do have a compass despite others claiming that they ahve an excellent sense of direction. :rolleyes:
The meals are something to be worked out, hence the suggestion whether to bring canned or dried food, or other suggestions from you.
We're expecting another shelter from one of the campers.
I had someone in the group saying (behind my back, but unfortunately someone added me into their MSN conversation :() that I'll bring useless things, however I doubt it. He's the idiotic "adventurous" kind, thinking no preparation are required.
Oh the list are not what I'll bring, but what supposedly the group would bring. I'll edit the original post to reflect what I will bring.
 
Here's my hiking checklist.

-backpack
-bug spray
-compass
-emergency drink (I mean E-mer-gen-C or whatever dopey name they call it. It's a sports supplement powder that goes in water and can kill the taste of iodine or other nasties in the water.)
-first aid kit
-flashlight (Photon II LEDs are all I need.)
-floss
-food (More on this below.)
-eyeglasses
-hammock
-hammock lines
-hat
-kerchief
-knife fixed blade
-knife primary folder
-knife utility folder
-lighter (disposable butane)
-machete
-magnesium fire starter (backup)
-map
-meds (personal)
-mess kit: cup, bowl, spoon (You don't need a fork.)
-poncho or umbrella
-paper and pencil
-paracord (extra)
-shovel (For cat holes. You could use the machete instead.)
-sky hooks (Keyring carabiners on loops of paracord.)
-sleeping bag
-sleeping pad (Closed-cell cheapie foam.)
-stove (Trangia alcohol stove. Light, small, simple. Just for boiling water.)
-stove fuel (Methanol in a 1/2 liter water bottle.)
-sun screen
-tarp
-tarp lines
-tea
-tent pegs (6)
-toothbrush
-towelettes (Use these for toilet and washing.)
-trash bag (emergency shelter)
-vitamins
-watch
-water bladder or bottle (3-liter Platypus or equivalent. In my hydration-ready backpack.)
-water filter (Pur Hiker)
-water tablets (Potable Aqua iodine tabs. Backup.)

Believe it or not, all this gear weighs about 20 pounds. Add water and food and clothing and you may come up to 35 pounds for three days and two nights.

For food I only use "add boiling water" stuff. It's simple and good enough for short trips. Oatmeal and a fruit bar and tea for breakfast. Pouches of tuna with premixed mayo and relish and mustard dressing for tuna salad lunch. Ramen noodles and a fruit bar and tea for dinner. Some Snickers bars for keeping warm at night are good too.

If you're taking a machete, you don't need a hatchet.

I think your list looks pretty good. Work through each day in your imagination. "I get up and go to the bathroom. Shovel. Wet naps. Sanitizer. I get into fresh socks and undies and pants and fresh t-shirt. Add to clothing counts. I boil water for breakfast. Lighter. 0.1 L of fuel. Lighter. Pot. Stove. Pot lid. Pot lifter. Etc." The idea is to vision through each day and make sure you've got the gear you imagine yourself using.

Have a great time.

Bear
 
Calyth said:

"I had someone in the group saying (behind my back, but unfortunately someone added me into their MSN conversation ) that I'll bring useless things, however I doubt it. He's the idiotic "adventurous" kind, thinking no preparation are required."

If this fellow is truly reckless and idiotic, don't bring him.

Also, it sounds like there is sniping between you two; why ruin each other's trip with that stuff? You two ought to take separate camping trips from each other.
 
Calyth,

How long do you plan on being out there? Also what are the experience level of the other folks? I must admit I admire your drive as these people sound unprepared. The one person who is the "idiotic, adventurer" definitely leave him if he is a pain. BTW, the "useless" things you bring may be the most important if an emergency arises, that is what I don't like ultra-light backpacking. Please provide more information as to where you will be going i.e., type of environment, when, for how long, experience level of others and yourself. I am a US Air Force Survival Instructor so I know all about taking unprepared, inexperienced, a pain in the butt people out to the woods. Do make sure you have an emergency heading set up and that everyone knows it. Also a good med kit is mandatory for us and cannot be overlooked. If you have emergency communication or signaling gear, that would be a plus as well. Please keep us advised.

PS. I have never heard a WOMAN say, "But that FEELS like North", only men pointing in the wrong direction, up to 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

Take care and God bless!
 
Calyth,
There is some good advice that has been posted and I won't repeat it , but I would sugest concidering how much weight you are packing and how far you are hiking. Since the people you are going with are inexperienced, it may be a good idea not to hike more than a few hours form your car(s), and evan make two trips if the gear you want or need is too heavy. Try to coordinate what you bring and who's hauling it with the people you are going with.
For food, things that are cooked by boiling are light and easy to make (the boiling also purifies the water). Don't bring anything with a stong smell if your camping in bear country. For snacks nuts, granola or candy bars are convient and have a lot of energy.
Some things I would add to your list: extra tarps, heavy duty trash bags, a water purifier, and most important toilet paper!
Enjoy your trip!
 
I like to bring pita bread, oil-packed tuna in a pouch and a few condiment packages of mayo and relish, make tuna salad 'in the pita'. In addition to ramen and instant lunch dishes also bring repacked couscous side-dishes in a box, instant oatmeal, Knorr dry soups & chowders. Just add boiling water, drink a cup of hot tea while you let dinner sit 4-5 minutes and dig in. You can find all these in a good grocery store at a fraction of the cost of 'backpack' food.

Watch 'The Blair Witch Project' once before you go, it'll help you decide what you need to bring. ;)
 
From the brochure, it says that there's lush plant growth, numerous waterways, mountain terrain with beaver, cougar, deer, black bear and mountain goat.
There was a mention of a permanent snow field but I think that would be much higher up at where we're staying.
Where we're staying is about at 440m at elevation.
Here's the brochure
 
File a trip plan with someone who can be trusted to arrange for your rescue before you have to resort to cannibalism.
 
bae: don't worry, even if we resorted to cannabalism, I'll be out of the bush because I have backup food and they don't :p
 
I busted into the Olympic mountains one time with a first timer. He said his dad was gonna outfit him up for the trip, and for me not to worry. About 10 miles into the hike, I started worrying.

He stopped suddenly in the middle of the trail and just flung his straps to the side, letting his pack crash to the ground. I let him shake it off for a few minutes, then went to help him get back into his pack.

That pack must have weighed in at 150 pounds, I really don't know. I could barely get it up and keep it steady to help him into it. Finally I asked him just what the hell he had in there. He had a loaf of bread, jar of peanut butter, jar of jelly, cans of soup and Chef Boyardee stuff, cassette player, extra batteries..... magazines, hell I thought he might have stuffed half a cord of firewood in there and a jerrycan full of gas for as much as that thing weighed.

Needless to say, even with 3/4 ton of gear on his back, essentials were sorely lacking. You have to sling your pack into the trees up in the Olympics... think he had any rope? We were going in for 2 days. Hit a stream about halfway in..... dry socks? Nuh-uh. So now not only was I packing half his stuff, he was using half of mine. We made it out though, and had a great time of it, in spite of the circumstances.

If you are going in with a bunch of noobs, I would recommend a good sit-down meeting a few days before hand, just to make sure everyone is on the same page. It'll save you and them a whole lot of misery, whether it be a day trip or longer. And if you can get your hands on a GPS, mark the location of the car as a waypoint and call it good. Those things are easy to use and take the guesswork out of getting your ass back to the rig.
 
Although schedules may not permit it, I recommend that you build up to a 3days + 2nights trip with novice partners. I'd be looking at a three part program to do this.
  1. Do some practice full-day hikes with about 1/2 to 3/4 pack weight. Skip the tents/shelters in the packs for this part of the training.

    This allows the new people to get used to the feeling of humping around a pack all day and figure out their own personal system for packing goodies in the bag. They use the time on these practice hikes to learn:
    - the importance of pacing themselves on the trail
    - the value of good rain gear & layering for comfort
    - what is valuable gear & what is unnecessary dead weight
    (first aid & emergency gear are ALWAYS kept with EACH person, see below)
    - how to handle the events (scenic, medical, edible, and otherwise) that arise on the trail
    - how to handle the personalities (their own & others) that develop under the duress of hiking. Mr Happy-In-The-Morning can easily become Mr Explosive by day's end.
    - how to navigate using their compass & map, plus possibly learn some alternative methods
    - how to use their gear before their safety & comfort depend on it
    - when to trust the experience of others (leadership issues) for the safety & progress of the group

    These practice hikes allow you (as the prospective "leader" of this group) to size up your team members and eliminate those who would endanger the others. Multi-day trips, possibly in remote areas, are not the place to find out some of the people you are supposedly responsible for (but who aren't willing to listen to anyone but their own ego) can't handle being outside of developed civilization. Better to spot such problems on a day hike close to home than half-way through a multi-day grinder of a trip.
  2. Do some single overnight trips. This accustoms the novices to the feeling of carrying the full pack weight. This extra stress on their bodies helps shake out lurking shoe/feet/leg/back problems. The newbies learn how to set up their tents/shelters and arrange their sleeping accommodations. They deal with fires for warmth & cooking. They learn what extra equipment night camping requires them to carry.
  3. Do the multi-day, multi-overnight trips.

Calyth, I don't want to suppress your willingness to teach new folks the ropes of hiking and camping. Both are extremely rewarding activities. But my gut feeling on the proposed trip isn't a good feeling. Trying to teach newbies virtually all aspects of hiking/camping in the course of a multi-day trip is IMHO setting yourself up to fail. This is especially possible given that some group members have indicated (behind your back) that they are not going to trust your experience or leadership. Paranoia about the unexpected, once you leave the sidewalks behind, is a very healthy attitude to maintain. If each member of the group doesn't have the experience and attitude needed to get everyone through the trip safely and with a degree of good humor, those who do have the needed knowledge & equipment (i.e. you :) ) have to overcompensate incredibly hard for the overall shortage of knowledge in the group. This then exhausts you to where your judgement can be affected. Mind you, I'm not saying that you WILL go down that slippery slope, but I am saying that it is possible and I've seen it happen.

Bear's list is a good starting point for gear to consider taking, along with lists from the many backpacking sites on the web. The recommendation in the brochure to tell someone when/where/how you will be hiking and when you are expected out of the backcountry is very good advice. If you are going into what they call "mountainous backcountry" I'd nix the trip until the others in your group have more experience under their belt.

The list below is emergency gear that IMHO should be with EACH member of the party at all times. The list is varying depending on climate & terrain to be encountered.
  • On the person (to be worn, stuck in pockets, or in fanny/shoulder bag):
    bandaids, bandana, mini-LED flashlight, whistle, hat/visor/sunblock, extra water, gorp/powerbars/snackfood, warmth layer (Polarfleece jacket) and/or rain layer, butane lighter or firesteel, compass & map (and the knowledge how to use them), antihistamine if allergic to stings. (Basically, go with the Boy Scout "ten essentials" list. :) )
  • Optional "on the person" stuff: folder or SAK if they can be trusted with a knife, 15-25 ft of 550 paracord, lightweight Space Blanket, walking stick/staff, water purification tablets/filter
  • "In the pack" or groupwide emergency stuff: more comprehensive first aid kit, more water, more paracord, heavier Space Blanket, more food, radio/cellphone, more cumulative knowledge and experience.

I do wish you and your group a good trip. But I recommend easing into it to insure a pleasant (or at least tolerable ;) ) experience for everyone involved.
 
Some good advice in the other posts.

If it is in bear country, don't forget to cook far from camp...and store food hanging from a tree so a bear doesn't come foraging for some tasty vittles in your tent. :eek:

Some pepper spray would also be a good idea.

I would stay away from canned food. Too much weight, and have to pack out all the empty cans. If there is a water source, bring a filter and some freeze dried food. Some of it is not bad...actually kind of tasty, especially after a long day hiking.

Some of the iso/butane stoves are small, light and compact. 1 or 2 canisters of fuel should get you by.

A paperback book is nice too. Kick back and enjoy the scenery and read a few chapters for relaxing.

Don't forget to file travel plans with a relative or good friend. That way if something were to happen, they will know where to start looking for you.

I'd get an LED flashlight and headlamp. Last longer and enough light for around camp use. Mag lights are pretty heavy. I would also ditch the metal silverware and get some Lexan ones. Plenty strong and lighter.

Some heavy duty trashbags and paracord should be on the list too. A 35mm film canister filled with cotton balls with Vasoline makes a small, light firestarter aid. Help you get a fire going.

I would also bring a gore-tex or similar shell in case of rain. I would bring a sleeping pad instead of the inflatable mattress...they always get holes in them.

Sorry for the rambling, been going back to previous posts so I don't re-state what's already been said.

Good luck and have fun! :D
 
Make sure your friends see this.
REI Share and Learn about Camping

The 10+ Essentials
Extra clothing layer(s)
Map of area (in waterproof case)
Drinking water
Compass
Food
Headlamp or flashlight (with extra batteries/ bulbs)
First-aid kit
Sunglasses (with retaining strap)
Pocket knife
Sunscreen
Matches (in waterproof container)Bic Mini and firestarter

You can find other checklists at the URL above and other posts, but make sure your friends all know enough to carry the 10+ essentials.
 
LOL
Believe it or not, I have most (if not all) of the listed 10 essentials, and in the topic, I've indicated newbie. I'm one of the supposedly newbie. I know what I should do at camp, but I've yet to put them to use. (although I did already learned how to use my equipment, including my magnesium firestarter [it was quite a pain IMO]).
They'll carry on with or without me, (and may i remind you that some of them have supposedly have camping experience, but the same persons have asked me why bring a hatchet :rolleyes: ) and without me I think they would be far worse off, because I know quite a bit about the medical things, and they only have one small first aid kit that I know of, while I've packed an Advance Medical first aid kit with various helpful over-the-counter medicine and a splint. Also, it would be very hard for me to get out of this because they would annoy me to death if I try, and persuading them to not carry it out would be an impossibility. (Yes I've tried persuading some of them on other things and there was no result).
At least I'm quite close with the recommended equipment list and I know how to use all of them.
Where would I find quality 550 paracord? like what kind of specialty shop do I have to look for? Also anyone have a good place for me to look up knots? I know how to tie a couple, but It sure helps if I know more.
 
I'd suggest "Mountaineering The Freedom of the Hills" 6th edition.

ISBN 0-89886-427-5

It has lots of good info. Outdoor fundamentals, navigation, knots, clothing and much more.

For paracord, try military surplus stores.
 
I say bring an extra bottle of deet. You'll be surprised how quickly you can run out when those bloodsuckers are out and about.
 
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