Beginner looking for 01 tool steel locally (or anywhere) Oly Wa US

J

Jack_Daniels

Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
20
So first a little about myself i suppose.
I'm 27 and have always loved knives but lately have been finding manufactured knives a little lacking.
I own alot of Kershaw i have the Ken onion series of kitchen knives
several cold steel pieces
and a ton of random maker folders and fixed blades

I use them all

Now i want to make some of my own I'm building a small coal forge for heat treating and tempering.I plan to mostly make stock removal knives Until i get the hang of everything then i will move on to hammer and anvil.

this is mostly a hobby but i would like to sell them if they are good enough.

so far i have sourced most of my tools sanders,files and the like

now i'm just looking for steel 01 is what i see alot of the videos i have been watching use so for the start i want to stick with what i have learned.

I would like to find a local supplier here in wa but if i have to order online i will i just need a supplier

thx guys hope to post my first knife on here soon
 
O1 is a good steel, but if you want to HT yourself, 1084 would be better.
You can use any steel if you send out to HT, but Texas Knifemaker Supply and an air hardening steel like 154CM is inexpensive for just 1 or 2 blades -
Otherwise you will hit minimum charges that will make 1 blade pretty expensive.





I've put this together to answer most of a new maker’s questions. I'm sure it will help you too.

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V21

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin. A paring knife slices, an axe splits.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then make it in wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
Play with that and see if it “feels right”. If it feels right it usually “looks right“

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.

Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, A2,
Or air quenched CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

Glue – Epoxy

Use a Fresh package, slow setting, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and well as seal out moisture.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive, blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints. Soap, Acetone & Alcohol, Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure= avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are well proven.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex


Grinder / Tools

In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential .
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than youfirst think.

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here

This is a special Google page that searches BF only.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

V21 Added Glue Oct 3, 2011.
 
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This is all great information i have read most of it actually but thanks for the info. as for heat treating i beleave following the oil quench and and blowtorch 3 stage tempering i feel 01 would be fine.
 
The only problem with 01 is that you have to "soak" it in the heat at 1500ish degrees for about 10 minutes, and a coal forge is not going to be able to get it very accurately. you are paying more for steel and getting the same amount or less performance from it than 1084. If you are going to use O1, then at least get a gas forge so that you can in some way regulate the temperature. 1084 will be just fine in everyday life, and you probably couldn't tell the difference in most cases.
 
A few questions then with 1084 is it still oil quench,at what temp do i quench,should the oil if needed be warm (i want the toughest edge possible).And is a differential Temper still possible. IE spring handle and tip moderate spring in the spine and complete to moderate hard edge (all done with a blowtorch)
 
it sounds like you need to get some steel like i use. is there a john deere dealer near you? see if they have any old seperator disks (google n214190 to see a picture) if they do, they might give them to you. you can heat treat them with a cutting torch. if done right you can end up with one heck of a good knife. here is a vid of a knife i made that is on a private passaround. the knife was sent to him after another member had it but was never resharpened or touched up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q_eMwRaHYg
 
Jack_Daniels said:
I have hear of people using lawnmower blades as well any idea what those are made of?
Click to expand...

Your best bet is stick with a known material (that means stay away from lawn mower blades, and plow parts)! If you are going to put time into making a knife it might as well be of something that you know will be useful. Aldo's 1084 has been recommended to new makers countless times by experienced makers (and it is very inexpensive to start with) a piece of .200 x 2.00" x 48.0" is less than $27.00. I however made my first 4,or 5 knives out of O1, but I have the means of a controlled heat treat, and tempering cycles where I work.

Here is Aldo's link: http://njsteelbaron.com/

Give him a call he is a great guy to deal with.

One other thing. Fill out your profile so we know where you live. If ya' live down the street from me I will give you a piece of 1084.
 
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melsdad, the seperator disks with the number i gave are 1075. i had a piece tested so i would know what they are made of. if a disk does not have the same number or is stamped "made in mexico" it is probably not 1075. the disks have been heat treated and have a rockwell of 56. i work them as is and heat treat only the edge with a cutting torch but i do it in a special way and i look for a certain color before i do the quench in canola oil.
 
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