Beginner looking for right grinder

kokyuho

kokyuho

Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
10
I'm brand new. I've got a book "How to Make Knives", some files and a vise. What about a grinder?...Bader?...Square Wheel?

Any special safety advice that will help me keep my finger tips while using these grinders?

Thanks, in advance.

Ben
Chicago
 
advice that will help me keep my finger tips
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Use your feet.

(Sorry seems like a day for sarcasm.)

:p :p

Seriously, a variable speed grinder is a help. You can slow things down to a point where you are comfortable. Then speed up when your confidence grows.

Steve
 
Oh yeah... Ben,

I have a Bader BIII, and I think its fine, but everyone here are Rob Frink groupies. The KMG is a fabulous machine. You'll not go wrong with one of those. My next grinder will be a KMG. If you are starting out, and got lots of money, the sky's the limit. We'll steer you in the right direction, but just beware that many opinions on the subject of equipment on these forums are driven by folks who are full-time makers, and by necessity try to be as frugal with their equipment and supplies as possible.
 
Originally posted by jhiggins
Oh yeah... Ben,

........ but just beware that many opinions on the subject of equipment on these forums are driven by folks who are full-time makers, and by necessity try to be as frugal with their equipment and supplies as possible.
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Actually, most full timers use the best equipment they an afford, and then some.
We have learned long ago that cut rate tools are just a waste of $$, that could have helped with the purchase of proper stuff in the first place.

The more expensive belts are used, not because of elitism, or anything like that, but that they outlast conventional belts up to 30-1, and provide a better finish. They turn out to be a huge savings in the long run.

If a full time maker recommends equipment here that is expensive, it is not "arrogance" talking, but experience. They know what works well, and what is only marginal.

jhiggins, this wasn't directed at you. :D

Remember, use your grinding belts like they were free. It will pay off in better knives.;) :D
 
I faced your situation a year ago,,,,it's hard to understand what to do....


I also got tons of advice about the different types of belt grinder....


In the end, it came down to the amount of money I could sink into knife making and needs I felt I may have for a grinder....The more need for a grinder you and I may dream of haveing in the future, the more money we need to make sure we invest into a good grinder....

And thats the real question to think about as you plan for your first grinder,,,

"What are your dreams?"

Do you plan on just making one or two blades in your whole life, then turn to other things of interest?

Do you have a blade in mind that you wish to try to make?

Do you see yourself being a type of knife maker in the future?

Is making knives a life-long dream you have had?

In my own life, I thought about the answers to such questions, as given me from my dreams of being a knife maker....


I have never regretted getting into this sport,,,however there are as many problems here as found in others I guess...



Thats about all I can say..except for the idea of working with a forge.

Althought I did get a belt grinder, I was never really seeking the dream of working with a belt grinder for the rest of my life, I wanted to Forge knives!

I have a dream of being able to turn rusted steel and things found around the shop into my own "DaQo'tah-design" knives...so getting my first real forge this year has been so much fun...
 
Remember, use your grinding belts like they were free. It will pay off in better knives.
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Mike truer words were never spoken! If there's anything I have to fight, that is it. I have found the better belts are worth every penny, and using fresh belts frequently just makes everything so much better! So I figure the abrasive cost for any given knife is about $25. Just price it in or give it away knowing it's part of the dues I'm paying.

As to grinder - I'm just like Higgy - I use a BIII now and my next one (you didn't think you only needed one grinder did you? :D ) will be a KMG. Go check out Rob's website and wear a bib because you'll be drooling almost immediately with true, absolute, driving need. I figure since you're making knives you must also be a tool junkie... :D

I will also second Steve's comment to buy variable speed - don't even consider buying a single speed machine. If necessary you can use a pulley system to adjust the speed of your belts, but make sure you accommodate that up front. I am speaking from experience.

And let me also just mention one more "rule" of grinders: You can't have too much power. My BIII is 1.5 hp and I now wish I'd gone for the 3 hp. I never thought I'd be able to stall 1.5 hp but tapering tangs I really have to be careful not to throw the overload - it'd be nice to be able to just hog it off! ;) My next grinder is going to up to the job!

You'll have to make a decision about a contact wheel, there are a lot of "discussions" around 8" or 10". I have a 10" and wish it were at least 14". Mine is serrated, I wish it were smooth. The serrated wheels help hog off steel and are great for profiling and rough grinding but they make getting a good finish harder. You'll also want a flat platen; consider facing it with pyroceram (do a search, Steve Pryor is a great guy) or hardened steel. Also check out Steve Sando's recent info on various other things he faces his platen with - a wealth of good ideas!

Okay one last word - buy a metal cutting bandsaw, and do it as soon as you can. There are some things you just wouldn't do if you didn't have a metal cutting band saw. Harbor Freight sells one most of us use and it's about $150 often on sale. If I had to put powered tools in order of their importance for making knives, I'd say it goes Drill Press, Grinder, Band Saw. Of course this might generate some lively discussion - he he!

Reading back through this I noticed that I've made the assumption you're just starting out - that isn't necessarily true and I apologize right now for my preachiness. You can love me or hate me for it, but you can't beat it out of me; they've tried for years. :rolleyes: :D

Welcome to Shop Talk, you're gonna have a blast! :cool:

Dave
 
Hey Dave, I forgot all about the pyroceram thing. Good advice. I got mine from Steve so long ago I forgot I had it. I surface-ground my platen to true it up nice and square before I applied mine (using jb weld). Looking back, I don't really think that was necessary, but I tend to get anal sometimes and overbuild everything I lay hands on.

Yeah Ben... get a KMG, bro. Best investment you'll ever make.

Oh yeah and the advice about the Harbor Freight bandsaw is very good too. I've used mine so much I'm at a crossroads whether or not to refurb mine or just buy a new one... TIME IS MONEY!
 
I've gotten some excellent feedback upon which to deliberate.

I'm visiting with Rob Frink at Beaumont Machine in Columbus, OH, in about a week. I'll give the KMG a good hard look.

Thanks for all the advice.

Much Appreciated!

Ben
 
Another consideration is belt length, longer belts last longer because they have more abrasive and run cooler. Short belts overheat and glaze more readily than longer belts. I run 97" belts but most knifemakers use 72" belts.
 
Hmmm... I've seen 134" belts but never 97" - is that a custom size? It sure would be easier to covert than to 134! :D
 
I live 5 miles west of Chicago O'hare Airport. I have a Bader III non variable speed and a Wilton Square Wheel Variable speed. Come on over and see what works best for you! Robs stuff is also top shelf too. ;) Cheers
 
I use 9 X 97s on a larger belt sander but the edges of the belts get little wear so I strip off the edges and use them for roughing out blades. I also purchase new 3 X 97s for grinding and finishing from my commercial belt supplier.
 
If you're trying to save some $ you can get the 1x30 HF belt grinder for under $50. The 1x42 might be a tad better, it has steel rollers instead of plastic. It's $50-60?

I have a 4x36 I use (poorly) but it's good to learn on cuz if I ever get a "real" grinder it will be a pleasure to use.

The KMG/Bader/etc are so far out of my budget it's crazy. that's a few car payments or a house payment....
 
I will give you the same advice given to me by Bernard Levine over 13 years ago. Learn to make your knives using files and sandpaper. Going a little slower at first cuts down on mistakes. Start with simple designs that can be finished more easily. Grinders and other equipment only let you speed up production. Learning to use a grinder (grinding blades) does take some time.
The book you have is one of the best for learning how to make a knife, in my opinion. It has a section on how to make knives with handtools. Good files and good paper will take you a long way towards where you want to be.
If you are ready to get your first power equipment I would recomend starting with a bench model drillpress. This can be purchased for under $200.00 and is a must.
When you are ready to purchase a grinder I would recomend on of Bob Doziers excellent grinders. No they are not cheap, but look at what you get. A 2 horse dc (variable speed) motor, a flat platten attachment, a grinding wheel attachment, and a belting attachment. You can change between these different attachments very quickly and this grinder tracks extremely well. That is my 2 cents worth. If I can be any help in the future feal free to contact me. Good luck, and have fun.
Tom
 
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