Beginner problems

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Brutus013

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I got my first stones today, but am having some difficulty getting my knives sharp. The one knife I DID get pretty sharp is my puukko, thanks to it's scandinavian grind. After the 8000 grit Norton stone, I can whittle hairs under tension. But another knife I'm using doesn't have the scandi grind, and I'm having trouble with it. It's a Kershaw Junkyard Dog in 13C26 stainless steel, and I'm attempting to use a 20 degree sharpening guide I made. It holds the stone 110 degrees vertically, so when held 90 degrees, a knife gets a 20 degree grind on each side of the edge. I did at least 100 passes on the 220 grit (5 on one side, then five on the other repeating), over 200 passes on the 1000 grit (once again, 5 strokes on one side, 5 on the other, rinse and repeat), and then the same amount of passes on a 4000 grit stone. After all of this, the knife is still not very sharp. I can't even slice paper cleanly. Since I'm just holding the knife at 90 degrees, I'm quite sure I'm being consistent, and the base sits flat on the table so I'm pretty sure the angle itself isn't a problem. Am I possibly not using enough water? Am I possibly using too much/not enough pressure? Another thing, I haven't really noticed burrs forming?
 
Try the magic marker trick to make sure you're hitting the actual edge. Color the edge grind with a sharpie and go at it.

Also make sure you're raising a burr before moving on to the next side and the next stone. Strop at the end to get rid of any wire edge that may be bent over causing the knife to feel very ragged and dull.

And what grit stones are you starting with? 1000 grit stones and finer aren't going to do too much for a dull knife any time soon. If the knife needs more than just a touch up, start with something in the range of 400 to 600, especially if you're changing the edge angle.
 
You may not be at the edge yet. You can use the "Sharpie trick" to tell. Just coat the edge in ink and see if you are removing metal on the entire bevel.
 
Psychopomp said:
Try the magic marker trick to make sure you're hitting the actual edge. Color the edge grind with a sharpie and go at it.

Also make sure you're raising a burr before moving on to the next side and the next stone. Strop at the end to get rid of any wire edge that may be bent over causing the knife to feel very ragged and dull.

And what grit stones are you starting with? 1000 grit stones and finer aren't going to do too much for a dull knife any time soon. If the knife needs more than just a touch up, start with something in the range of 400 to 600, especially if you're changing the edge angle.
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I started with at least 100 strokes on a 220 grit Norton. Let me find some sharpie.
 
Just did another 200 passes, making sure to keep the knife at 90 degrees (just like with the sharpie, meaning I was hitting the whole bevel) and once again, even slicing paper is inconsistent.
 
And of course it's the only knife with problems. Just got another knife that was more dull to start with shaving sharp in about 15 minutes.
 
Usually water stones are used laid flat, the problem you may be having is you are not building up a slurry. If I remember correctly the slurry is what does the sharpening.
 
do you have a magnafying glass? that would help to see if you are working up a burr that is too small for the naked eye. try the leather disc trick i told you about. you might be suprised at the difference it could make.
 
use only the 220 and sharpen until you get a burr and remove it. there's really no point in going to the finer stones until you get a shaving edge with the 220.
 
hardheart said:
use only the 220 and sharpen until you get a burr and remove it. there's really no point in going to the finer stones until you get a shaving edge with the 220.
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I get a burr, albeit a small one, then do 10 or so passes on the side with the burr, grinding it away. But it still isn't shaving sharp after that.
 
what I do when I get a burr (and small is good, the burr is just wasted metal, save what you can) is flip the blade over. I alternate to break the burr off, but I apply no pressure to the blade. I let the abrasive do the work without trying to remove any more metal than is necessary for the burr to give way. I just check every time I flip the blade over to make sure the burr changes sides until I can no longer feel it. Then I move on to the next grit. I got a knife shaving sharp on a 60 grit stone, you'll get it at 220 no problem. The 4K/8K is a polishing step, you don't even want to touch it until your knife is already sharp enough for you to carry for normal tasks.
 
hardheart said:
what I do when I get a burr (and small is good, the burr is just wasted metal, save what you can) is flip the blade over. I alternate to break the burr off, but I apply no pressure to the blade. I let the abrasive do the work without trying to remove any more metal than is necessary for the burr to give way. I just check every time I flip the blade over to make sure the burr changes sides until I can no longer feel it. Then I move on to the next grit. I got a knife shaving sharp on a 60 grit stone, you'll get it at 220 no problem. The 4K/8K is a polishing step, you don't even want to touch it until your knife is already sharp enough for you to carry for normal tasks.
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So raise a small burr, and then to alternating strokes, one per side, with no pressure until it is gone? Lemme try it out (man, I'm having to flatten this 220 grit stone quite a bit.
 
I must be doing something wrong. I just did that multiple times, and it is defiitely not shaving sharp. Perhaps the edge is too obtuse?
 
you might want to go ahead and remove the burr with the next grit stone and see if that helps. raise the burr at 220, remove it at 1K. take it slow and easy and stay fairly consistent with your angle.
 
I'm done for today. I've been sharpening far too often over the past two days. My shoulder, left trapezius and left latissmus are both literally sore. I'll try that tomorrow I guess. I'm considering attempting a trade for an EdpePro Apex. The base model is around the same price as my set of stones, and while it doesn't come with a 4000/8000, my knives will be far sharper then they are getting now (maybe not in the future, but as of now WAY sharper).
 
If a persistant burr is your current problem, an EdgePro may not be the solution. It, too, can create a burr. If you are "having to flatten this 220 grit stone quite a bit" then you may be using too much pressure. Use slow, deliberate, LOW-pressure strokes, alternating sides with each stroke. Do three sets and check for a burr. Do 3 more and check. Continue untile the burr is gone. When the burr is gone, you will be sharp. Time to progress to the next grit.
 
I'm not having a problem removing the burr, nor getting a burr. I can get a bur, and then I can grind it away using light strokes, but it just isn't getting my knife very sharp. Without someone personally watching me, text advice can only do so much. Also, I probably don't need to flatten the 220 grit as often as I have been, but I wanted to make sure it was completely flat. I already have a trade worked out for a sharpmaker and a bit of cash, and I'm waiting on any other offers I might get. I'm apparently too impatient.
 
Brutus013 said:
I'm not having a problem removing the burr, nor getting a burr. I can get a bur, and then I can grind it away using light strokes, but it just isn't getting my knife very sharp.
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Perception/expectation of "sharp" is objective. You may be expecting too much from your 220 grit stone. Do the same (burr, de-burr) with your 1000 grit stone. If you don't preceive "sharp" afterward, at least your blade will be better prepared for the Sharpmaker's medium stones.
 
Zeasor said:
Perception/expectation of "sharp" is objective. You may be expecting too much from your 220 grit stone. Do the same (burr, de-burr) with your 1000 grit stone. If you don't preceive "sharp" afterward, at least your blade will be better prepared for the Sharpmaker's medium stones.
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My expectation was low, but apparently you can get knives shaving sharp on the 220. I can't. And I've tried on the 1000, and I still can't.
 
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