Beginner questions

J

John J. O'Meara

Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Messages
5
I'm new to the internet & new to knife making,so bear with me. I'd like to make a knife & use elk antler for the handles.
Is a good application of Epoxy sufficient or should I use mechanical means? If so any suggestions? Next, assuming the heat treat is no problem, is the cost of a high speed steel worth the difference in price, or should I just make it out of 52100 or D2 or the likes?
 
Hi John,

Welcome aboard! I'm no expert, but maybe I can help. Others can offer more learned advice.

When you say handles, do you mean scales or slabs of antler on each side of the blade? Typically, scales are attached with rivets or bolts in addition to epoxy. You can get these bolts or rivets through most knife maker's supply houses.

As for the material elk antler, perhaps someone can offer suggestions on how well it works as scales (assuming that is what you want to do. Do I read that right?)


Mike
 
Welcome John! I generally use pins and epoxy (Devcon, JB Weld, etc.) Probably knifemaking rivets (ie; Corby, Loveless) are the most straightforward to use with a full tang knife. There is a cheaper way though. I simply use 1/8" brass pins that I peen very gently with a tiny ballpeen hammer. The rustic look of the peened head I find matches well with the elk. The same method can be used with a hidden tang also. Good Luck!

Hugh

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President of Knifemakers Anonymous - "The sickness can be cured!" Call 1-800-cutfingers
 
Thanks to those who responded, Mike,Hugh, &CL. I do plan to mske the tang full width and length, and sandwich it with elk, so I guess I'd better use some rivets or bolts. There are several reasons why I'm considering HSS rather than 52100 or D2. I can pick up a little extra hardness, but most important,I can steam temper a protective blue black coating on HSS, but not on D2 or 52100. How hard is too hard on a knife? (for purposes of sharpening)?

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John O'Meara
 
If your going to use slabs i would suggest using epoxy and rivets, if countersinking the tang all you need is epoxy. And as far as epoxy goes i would suggest devcon water proof 2 ton epoxy. its wonderful!!! (and you can get it at wal-mart! for abot 2 bucks!!)
 
I don't see many knives made from HSS, a few from M2, hardness is not the only factor involved in a good knife.

What use will your knife be put to?

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Sola Fide
 
Sola Fide:I intend to use my knife for flyfishing. I'd like to carry it up around the top of my waders. M2 is a high speed steel. The reason you don't see it used very often is probably the difficulty in getting a good heat treatjob done on it,which is the least of my concerns. Using M2 or any other HSS, I can draw back the tang and point to increase hardness,and finally give the entire blade a steam blackening to improve rust prevention somewhat.
 
Sorry, but I couldn't resist...

Gonna use that knife for flyfishing, huh? Must be Hell to attach the reel...

Okay, I'm done now. But seriously, would it be safe to assume, from your posts, that you work in some field that allows you access to heat treating equipment and finishing stuff? Sure sounds like it...if so, you can probably do a brisk trade with some of us lowly unfortunates who don't have the $1000 or so bucks to get our own HT furnace...



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Damn! That wasn't supposed to explode...yet!
 
John-

Let me preface this by saying that it's just advise and it can go in one ear and out the other if you like.

The one thing I'm not doing is trying to tell another man how to make his knife, just offering suggestions.

I believe Elk antler to be a very beautiful handle material. The BIGGEST problem that you will run into with it as a knifemaker is that fact that Elk antler has a larger diameter core in it with a thin wall of enamel. What that means is it is better suited for hidden tang knives.

It will work on a full tang knife, but you need to either have each end "capped" with a forward and rear bolster, or AT LEAST seal the porous part of the antler with super glue. That spongy looking interior of the horn isn't just unsightly, it can reak havoc on your handle when it soaks up water (and since it's going to be used for fishing and all).

Also, on the steel, 52100 and D2 are excellent knife steels. I wish I knew where you are/could order it from that D2 is inexpensive.

If you do go with a full tang construction, there are many many supply houses that you can get hidden thread rivets from. Some of which would be:

K&G Finishing Supply
Texas Knifemaker Supply
Jantz
Koval
McMaster Carr

The list goes on.

Feel free to email me with any further inqueries as to any of this.
biggrin.gif


Nick
 
NickWheeler,thank you for your suggestions and comments. I do need all the help I can get, just getting started etc. Your comments on the use of elk antler are appreciated. In answer to Kalindras, yes I do own a heat treating company, but we can't discuss that here. If you'd care to contact me at jack@met-sol.com I'd be happy to discuss it in more detail. Thus far no one has answered the question as to wheter the difference in price for M2 is worth the difference in quality, assuming one could even heat treat it properly. Also, how hard is too hard in a knife? I figured a blade with an edge hardness of Rc60-62 would hold one fine edge but is that realistic?
 
I can't tell you if the price of M2 is worth it. I don't use M2 and don't have a foggy what it sells for, if D2 is so cheap why not make a test blade of both and compare. You'll have to do the research on the M2 yourself, probably somone here could relate their experience with D2 as it is a proven knife steel.

The Hardness and Toughness issue is a balancing act between the two. I have a small knive of 52100 that I use for leather work it is barely tempered,and might shatter if I dropped it on concrete, or at least chip.

A knife that will see harder use is tempered at a higher temp. to be tougher.

A bird and trout knife should be somewhat flexible.

Is M2 flexible?

Can you afford to find out?

In my opinion, and I'm a carbon steel kinda guy, 60 to 62 is a little hard.

Let us know how it comes out, have fun.


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Sola Fide
 
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